
Home  Forums  Rules  Articles  diyAudio Store  Gallery  Wiki  Blogs  Register  Donations  FAQ  Calendar  Search  Today's Posts  Mark Forums Read  Search 
Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification. 

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.
Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving 

Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
29th January 2013, 08:32 AM  #11  
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium the land of chocolate

Quote:


29th January 2013, 05:12 PM  #12 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: So.Cal.

Everyone: thanks for all of the input!
Lazycat: I checked out the VSSA thread; sounds interesting......I hoping to find a project with PCBs available so I will stay tuned. Next (dumb) question. Can I estimate the current capability of the 40040 taps with any accuracy by knowing that the AV receiver was rated at 100W output on the main stereo channels? I understand that there is a spectrum of possible class A and AB transition points based on idle current. I would also assume that this operated in vary shallow class A since it was an AV receiver. Also, if I assume that the 25025 taps were powering the center and rear channels (35W each) can I get a meaningful estimation of current capability for these taps? Should I just test the transformer under load? I have a few large power resistors but in very limited values. 
29th January 2013, 05:16 PM  #13 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders

Can you see and therefore estimate the wire thickness used for each of the 18Vac, 25Vac and 40Vac taps?
Winding wire thickness is a VERY good guide to current rating. Assume 3.1A/sqmm of crosssection.
__________________
regards Andrew T. Sent from my desktop computer using a keyboard 
29th January 2013, 05:53 PM  #14 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: So.Cal.


30th January 2013, 02:36 AM  #15  
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Zagreb

Quote:
Standard EI transformers are wound at up to 10% regulation, which basically means the voltage drop from unloaded to fully loaded is 10%. Using the measured voltage and resitance it's a matter od using ohms law to estimate the available current, and this would be step 1. Step 2 is adding together voltage x current of all windings to get an estimate of the VA rating of the transformer. This is then compared to the core size. A quick estimate for standard EI cores would be to calculate the crosssection of the central part around which the bobbin is mounted, in square cm. Take 90% of this number and square it, and you get a rough estimate of the VA rating. Divide that with estimate you got from the voltage and resistance measurements, usually this latter will be higher because a rather pessimistic figure was used for regulation, and you will get a figure less than 1, 0.70.8 would be quite common. Multiply your estimated winding currents by thet number and you will likely be very close to the actual spec, with some safety margin. So, here is an example. Suppose you measure a winding at 40V unloaded. The winding resistance is measured at 1 ohm (remember to subtract the resistance of probe wires which you get by shorting the probes  not the definitive method but a sufficiently precise ballpark value). Assuming regulation is 10%, this resistance will drop 10% of 40V, i.e. 4V at full load, ohms law tells us this will require 4A of current. So, this winding is capable of sourcing 40V x 4A = 160VA of power. For multiple windings do the calculation for each and add the VA contributions together. However, measiring the cross section of the iron core inside the bobin gives us say 12 square cm, but since not all of it is iron  there is some insulation and air, assume 90% is iron, and so the actual cross section is 10.8 square cm. THis in turn when squared gives us 10.8 x 10.8 = 116.64VA as the VA rating of the core. Now we divide this with the forst estimate, 160VA and we get 0.729. We use this to multiply our first current estimate to get something closer to the ctual current, in this case it is 4 x 0.729 = 2.916A This estimate will usually fail for very high current or very low voltage (difficult to measure low resistance of the winding) and very low current (winders will often use thicker wire to make winding easy if this is not the largest power winding on the core) windings in that it may not represent how the transformer was originally designed, but you could still source the calculated current. 

30th January 2013, 08:21 AM  #16  
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2007

Quote:
Yes, it is possible to get the 60W per channel stereo, in high fidelity. It will have an additional higher capacity of midfi useful for headroom management that sounds better than clipping. If the power supply capacitance is sized big enough to outlast a bass beat yet small&fast enough to recover before the next bass beat, it may do 75 watts per channel if the transformer allows, and also possibly rather large bass peaks that can vary in quality. Surely using the Honey Badger makes a better quality amplifier; however, the Denon's smaller power range behavior persists because of using a lower amperage, mass market retail transformer. This behavior can be quite useful if you have nongigantic 8 ohm speakers. Result: Honey Badger boards with 2x MJL parallel for outputs. Do C3,C4 as 220u220u and right size the input cap. 5x6800u per rail simple split rail supply with KBPC3502. Due to retail transformer, avoid using 4 ohm speakers.
__________________
♦ DIY Models & Apps ♦ ClipNipper ♦ LM1875 ♦ TDA7293 ♦ Powerful Parallel TDA7293 kit ♦ My post has opinion.


30th January 2013, 09:40 AM  #17 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders

That reads like the leadout wires.
It's the wire in the winding you need the thickness of.
__________________
regards Andrew T. Sent from my desktop computer using a keyboard 
30th January 2013, 02:59 PM  #18 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: So.Cal.

Thanks for the replies everyone!
AndrewT: Yes those are the lead wires, I'm not sure I want to dig into the case... ilimzn: I'm familiar with the concept you've outlined, and used a handy chart published years ago to estimate the current capability of an unknown tube power transformer based on winding resistance. In this case, even with my Fluke 79 meter, it's difficult to measure 1 ohm or less even on the sensitive R range. Tube power transformers at least have resistance that can be measured with a typical meter. Daniel: So one can scale the number of outputs on the honey badger without much other changes? ie front end stays the same, etc.? This sounds doable.... 
2nd February 2013, 01:21 AM  #19  
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Nov 2007

Quote:
__________________
♦ DIY Models & Apps ♦ ClipNipper ♦ LM1875 ♦ TDA7293 ♦ Powerful Parallel TDA7293 kit ♦ My post has opinion.


2nd February 2013, 01:40 AM  #20 
diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: So.Cal.

Thanks Daniel:
So, what outputs (and how many)? I'm assuming that running less than 3 pairs at higher bias currents makes more sense than fully populating the outputs and running them with little bias due to transformer current limitations. I have been searching the various Honey Badger threads about output devices and bias current, but have only found spotty info. I see that most folks are using 600800VA transformers for this project, and I'm sure the one I have falls far short of that (comparing it to the size of the 400VA Antek 20V transformer in my F4). I'd be plenty happy with anything between 2575W or so of output, and happily sacrifice max power out for hotter bias with less/smaller outputs. This project is sort of a "scrap box challenge". Last edited by boywonder; 2nd February 2013 at 01:42 AM. 
Thread Tools  Search this Thread 


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Looking for project suggestions  12au7 preamp?  zxgravediggerxz  Tubes / Valves  6  4th May 2012 06:12 AM 
Beginners Guitar amp project, any suggestions?  weatherlight  Instruments and Amps  19  11th August 2008 10:17 PM 
Suggestions for a chip amp Kit or Project?  santiu  Chip Amps  5  12th November 2005 04:06 PM 
Class AB Amp Project  USFishin  Solid State  3  28th March 2004 06:29 PM 
50W Class AB BJT suggestions for newbie  morBin  Solid State  15  17th October 2003 09:45 AM 
New To Site?  Need Help? 