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Tell me about gainclones
Tell me about gainclones
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Old 14th November 2003, 12:29 AM   #21
Peter Daniel is offline Peter Daniel  Canada
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The current price of the amp and PS from 47 Labs is $3,300. Check Audiogon how much they are selling used.

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.p...041&class&3&4&
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Old 14th November 2003, 12:45 AM   #22
ronc is offline ronc  United States
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Maybe we ,or at least the ones making the noise in this thread, should call up all the reviewers of the gaincard and Peters amp and tell them they are wrong and really dont know what they are doing?
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Old 14th November 2003, 01:29 AM   #23
Greg Erskine is offline Greg Erskine  Australia
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Tell me about gainclones
Default My 2 cents worth

I have just a few general comments on my experiences with gainclones.

The ones I have built sound good, but not exceptional, but I've only built minimalist ones without exotic parts. IMHO mine don't sound as good as say, my AKSA amp.

I've also had the opportunity to listen to Joe Rasmussen's JLTi (tube buffered, filtered, inverted GC) and it does sound very good. I didn't have the opportunity to do direct comparisons but I can say his JTLi sounds superior to my basic GCs.

So I have to believe that some have made GCs that sound good and others have made them that sound very good or exceptional.
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Old 14th November 2003, 01:37 AM   #24
Sandy H. is offline Sandy H.  United States
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This chip has its place and it may well be in the systems of some aficionados. I don't know, I am far from that. I built one to use with my speaker testing rig and that's the only one. It sounds better than my mass market stuff, but that's not saying much.

I have accumulated many of the parts for a Class A amp of obvious lineage, whenever the group buys get in line. I am pursuing this as, so far, I have liked the factory Pass amps and the DIY Pass amps I have heard thus far. There was a reality that the other high dollar amps didn't seem to have. It could have been psychology, but I am motivated to try one for myself.

I think the generically named GC amp does indeed have its place. If the number of radical changes Peter and others have reported are indeed real, it seems to be an unstable platform at best, but in the right situation could be excellent. I wish I had the energy to duplicate their efforts.

At times, I have viewed this forum as a place of innovation and at other times a place of snake oil sales. The GC seems to be a center for one of these pursuits, you judge which one.

Without question, the GC based concept brings decent DIY to the hands of about anyone and possibly the pinnacle to artisans. Other designs exist, some people love tubes and I'd love to hear a real horn design, just for reference. . .

Thanks to all that contribute without throwing mud at an issue that is worthy of discussion, in my opinion.

Sandy.
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Old 14th November 2003, 03:57 AM   #25
ronc is offline ronc  United States
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Some years ago there was a turbine powered car racing at indy.No it didnt win but it scared the other engine mfgs half to death.Within 2 months there were restrictions that did not allow the car to be competitive.While the other crews were futzing with the powerplants the turbine crew were fine tuning the chassie and related things.
I kind of look at the GC in the same light.The turbine is there , we are just fine tuning the chassie and other related things.
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Old 14th November 2003, 05:01 AM   #26
hitsware is offline hitsware
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>fine tuning the chassie and other related things.

Man you really can't spell ..........
That should be ' chassy ' ............
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Old 14th November 2003, 06:13 AM   #27
DrG is offline DrG  South Africa
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Actually neither one of you can spell... it's chassis

ron clarke:
Quote:
Maybe we ,or at least the ones making the noise in this thread, should call up all the reviewers of the gaincard and Peters amp and tell them they are wrong and really dont know what they are doing?
Damn fine idea, ron! Now why didn't I think of that...
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Old 14th November 2003, 06:22 AM   #28
DrG is offline DrG  South Africa
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Kuei Yang Wang:
Quote:
Non of those you find in Rowland or Linns Amplifiers for amplification come in at $ 1 (US) budgetary pricing in 1,000's.
Okeydokey, let's split hairs and pick nits... I was being facetious. You say they are $7. Fine. I would still feel seriously miffed to spend $3300 on a 47Lab Gaincard and find a $7 device doing the hard work...

That's a 950% mark-up... a monumental rip-off, no matter how it sounds or who built it.
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Old 14th November 2003, 07:40 AM   #29
purplepeople is offline purplepeople  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrG
Kuei Yang Wang:
Okeydokey, let's split hairs and pick nits... I was being facetious. You say they are $7. Fine. I would still feel seriously miffed to spend $3300 on a 47Lab Gaincard and find a $7 device doing the hard work...

That's a 950% mark-up... a monumental rip-off, no matter how it sounds or who built it.
Since we're splitting hairs, I believe that's closer to 471 times the chip cost or 47000% markup. Of course, that's based on 100% markup being double, 200% being triple, et al.

(I do hope you're not trying to calculate the various voltages and impedances in your discrete circuits, let alone the noise. May I kindly suggest that you consider letting NatSemi do the engineering for you).

Besides, is that any different than $50 of components in a $5000 discrete. Oh wait... that's only 9900% markup... that can't possibly be a rip-off. :)

What some keep forgetting to calculate (hmmm... there's that math thing again) is that every level of the distribution chain will double, triple or even quadruple the costs from the previous tier. Even if they used sweatshop labour, Sakura is selling their work cheap. Actually, if he is hand-building them, he is using sweatshop labour..his own. The only reason the big fabs costs so little (relatively) is that they are big fabs and have billions invested in automation that nearly removes the cost of labour. And, I won't even get into the costs of shipping stuff that is heavy and requires massive boxes of mostly foam protection.

Now, it's okay to admit you just won't pay the money it takes to listen to boutique audio equipment, but to keep whining about the huge markups, well, that's just unnecessary whining. Did you ever buy a car with an option in it? Ever ask yourself how much the crappy 6-speaker stereo actually costs, and how much you got ripped off for having it installed. How about the cost of a good dinner at a fancy restaurant? I'll bet the "actual" food costs pennies. Maybe you've complained about the cost of popcorn at the movies or even the cost for riding a billion dollar subway system. Wait... how about the cost of music. Forget CD's... burn, baby, burn....

But of course not. Most of us on this forum would would gladly pay the $20 cost of a CD that costs pennies to manufacture and happily refuse a free MP3 file.

And just to keep it on topic.... Solid Snake: Many bi-amp active monitors use some kind of chip amp, often NS chips. Go to the nearest pro studio shop and demo them - they will surprise you for their price. Even the ones that cost less than $2000/pair are very accurate. So far, the only thing better that I've heard is a Bryston and they have a really steep entry cost and an ultra-complex schematic (complete with discrete opamps!).

:)ensen.

CD $0.05 at factory
Britney Spears $10,000,000
FedEx $5 (truck)
Watching specific forum members faces as I play it on an LM3886 amp: Absolutely priceless.

(oops, I did it again)
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Old 14th November 2003, 07:44 AM   #30
fmak is offline fmak
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Default Re: Tell me about gainclones

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Solid Snake
[B]As far as I know, gainclones are just chip amps right? Why are they so popular compared to other chip amps or discrete component designs. Why would I want to build a gainclone more than any other design?
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I find this thread quite interesting.

Jean-Paul, why are you objecting as you objected to my thread asking Peter Daniel and others about them?

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