Lets get this straight.
You are using an external DAC, Right? You adjust the PC for half the volume level and this instructs the DAC to reduce the audio output level, right?
So you are reducing the signal to the amplifier and so the distortion in the sound reduces too. That is what has been described to you here already.
You can switch signals in and out as you please. Combining them seems pointless if you want to listen to them separately.
All you need to do is make 2 simple preamplifier stages with an adjustable gain of around 10. Use a dual OPamp using low supply voltages, if you like.
Feed the undistorted input into the first stage and adjust it to overdrive the second and set the output level of the second to match the undistorted input.
Then feed the output of the second stage into one amplifier channel and the original, undistorted signal is also fed into the other channel.
You will then be comparing original clean input with an overdriven (clipped) one.
Unfortunately, if you want this all to happen like magic with little effort, that's not going to happen. I suspect you'll need to learn some serious electronics and DIY
You are using an external DAC, Right? You adjust the PC for half the volume level and this instructs the DAC to reduce the audio output level, right?
So you are reducing the signal to the amplifier and so the distortion in the sound reduces too. That is what has been described to you here already.
You can switch signals in and out as you please. Combining them seems pointless if you want to listen to them separately.
All you need to do is make 2 simple preamplifier stages with an adjustable gain of around 10. Use a dual OPamp using low supply voltages, if you like.
Feed the undistorted input into the first stage and adjust it to overdrive the second and set the output level of the second to match the undistorted input.
Then feed the output of the second stage into one amplifier channel and the original, undistorted signal is also fed into the other channel.
You will then be comparing original clean input with an overdriven (clipped) one.
Unfortunately, if you want this all to happen like magic with little effort, that's not going to happen. I suspect you'll need to learn some serious electronics and DIY
Lets get this straight.
You are using an external DAC, Right? You adjust the PC for half the volume level and this instructs the DAC to reduce the audio output level, right?
So you are reducing the signal to the amplifier and so the distortion in the sound reduces too. That is what has been described to you here already.
You can switch signals in and out as you please. Combining them seems pointless if you want to listen to them separately.
All you need to do is make 2 simple preamplifier stages with an adjustable gain of around 10. Use a dual OPamp using low supply voltages, if you like.
Feed the undistorted input into the first stage and adjust it to overdrive the second and set the output level of the second to match the undistorted input.
Then feed the output of the second stage into one amplifier channel and the original, undistorted signal is also fed into the other channel.
You will then be comparing original clean input with an overdriven (clipped) one.
Unfortunately, if you want this all to happen like magic with little effort, that's not going to happen. I suspect you'll need to learn some serious electronics and DIY
I think I didn't explain well ok let me try with an illustration
sorry I forgot to put the arrows , but I'm sure you know what I mean When I write "Pc Vol" I mean "Windows volume control ", you know, the little speaker on your Taskbar.
Here is what I want to do :
Does it make any sense guys ?? How could I do this ??
By the way the PC volume(WINDOWS VOLUME CONTROL) is controlling what ?? A pre amp found on the motherboard ?? or does it bypass all this and goes directly to my DAC ??
When it's at 100% what is the electronic element which is actually distorting ??
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It is still not clear, what you would like to achieve.
You like the distorted sound for some pieces of musik,
while for other songs you like the undistorted sound ?
You want a switch to switch forth and back between the two variations,
without having to adjust the volume on your amplifier or active-speakers ?
If you want to have something like that, it will be much easier, if you use
plugins like this: Audio tube/valve overdrive plugin (AU, VST) - Voxengo Tube Amp - Voxengo
"The sound this plug-in produces varies from a mild “warm” overdrive to a fuzzy distortion."
Such VST plugins can be loaded for example into J.River Mediacenter and can be applied to the music during playback. You can adjust such plugins or switch them on/off as you like.
If you want to do that in analog hardware, it becomes very difficult:
Without knowing the source of the funny sound you describe, it is not clear if it is distortion, clipping, lack of output power of your DAC or amp at higher levels,...and we are not able to find out by remote diagnostic.
That means probably also, that any analog distortion generator you build, will sound probably fundamentally different from the "funny" sound you have at 100% volume.
My advice: If you would like to compare different distortion figures - since you use a DAC and PC already. Stay at 50% output level and apply sound effects using VST plugins - there are many of them available for free.
You like the distorted sound for some pieces of musik,
while for other songs you like the undistorted sound ?
You want a switch to switch forth and back between the two variations,
without having to adjust the volume on your amplifier or active-speakers ?
If you want to have something like that, it will be much easier, if you use
plugins like this: Audio tube/valve overdrive plugin (AU, VST) - Voxengo Tube Amp - Voxengo
"The sound this plug-in produces varies from a mild “warm” overdrive to a fuzzy distortion."
Such VST plugins can be loaded for example into J.River Mediacenter and can be applied to the music during playback. You can adjust such plugins or switch them on/off as you like.
If you want to do that in analog hardware, it becomes very difficult:
Without knowing the source of the funny sound you describe, it is not clear if it is distortion, clipping, lack of output power of your DAC or amp at higher levels,...and we are not able to find out by remote diagnostic.
That means probably also, that any analog distortion generator you build, will sound probably fundamentally different from the "funny" sound you have at 100% volume.
My advice: If you would like to compare different distortion figures - since you use a DAC and PC already. Stay at 50% output level and apply sound effects using VST plugins - there are many of them available for free.
No actually I am a mixing engineer and I have found that the best tracks, can resist the 100% volume perfectly, while the shitty mixes sounded super harsh and piercing.
I would just like to know how I could create this 100% effect in the analog world. I tried for a long time using different plugins to reproduce this effect but no plugin gave me those results.
I am using a DAC which is connected via USB to my PC. What is the volume control in the task bar actually controlling ?
I assume that USB carries only digital signal , so when the volume control on the taskbar is set at 100% , which electronic part of the DAC is being driven hot ??
I would just like to know how I could create this 100% effect in the analog world. I tried for a long time using different plugins to reproduce this effect but no plugin gave me those results.
I am using a DAC which is connected via USB to my PC. What is the volume control in the task bar actually controlling ?
I assume that USB carries only digital signal , so when the volume control on the taskbar is set at 100% , which electronic part of the DAC is being driven hot ??
Hi Guys
As others have pointed out, the distortion you described results from some part of the circuit clipping the signal - running out of voltage head room and cutting off what would otherwise be a clean much-taller peak.
Yes, you can simulate this very easily in analog and have it be on a switch. There are several ways to do it.
One method is to simply add diodes in antiparallel to the signal path at a point in the path where you have no control over the signal level. A pot in series with the diodes will allow you to dial in the diode clip sound and provides "compliance" between saturated clipped sounds and fully clean tones. If you wanted to be fancier about it, you would arrange for the clipped path to be buffered from and mixable into the clean path.
An alternate method is to change the supply voltage to a given circuit stage. This is like stepped Power Scaling but without drive compensation because you want to add distortion. The lower voltage mode will clip sooner and provide the distortion you described.
Overdriven stereos, PA systems, mixers,guitar amps, et al clip the signal and put out squared off waves with a predominantly odd-order harmonic profile. It is harsh and fizzy sounding. Most live sound is hugely distorted and presented to the listener at SPLs beyond human compression - should be criminal - which makes it easier than ever to simulate 'live' sound at home: dial volume to '10' and not hear the music.
Some regulatory agencies prescribe measuring maximum output power at 10% THD. This is a visibly distorted sine wave with slightly flattened tops when viewed on a scope.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
londonpower.com
As others have pointed out, the distortion you described results from some part of the circuit clipping the signal - running out of voltage head room and cutting off what would otherwise be a clean much-taller peak.
Yes, you can simulate this very easily in analog and have it be on a switch. There are several ways to do it.
One method is to simply add diodes in antiparallel to the signal path at a point in the path where you have no control over the signal level. A pot in series with the diodes will allow you to dial in the diode clip sound and provides "compliance" between saturated clipped sounds and fully clean tones. If you wanted to be fancier about it, you would arrange for the clipped path to be buffered from and mixable into the clean path.
An alternate method is to change the supply voltage to a given circuit stage. This is like stepped Power Scaling but without drive compensation because you want to add distortion. The lower voltage mode will clip sooner and provide the distortion you described.
Overdriven stereos, PA systems, mixers,guitar amps, et al clip the signal and put out squared off waves with a predominantly odd-order harmonic profile. It is harsh and fizzy sounding. Most live sound is hugely distorted and presented to the listener at SPLs beyond human compression - should be criminal - which makes it easier than ever to simulate 'live' sound at home: dial volume to '10' and not hear the music.
Some regulatory agencies prescribe measuring maximum output power at 10% THD. This is a visibly distorted sine wave with slightly flattened tops when viewed on a scope.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
londonpower.com
Kevin thank you sooooo much for sharing your knowledge and this tip !!!! Now i'll get working on it
Wooo hooo!!
The cable between the PC and DAC is for digital data, probably in USB format for basic PCs. A DAC converts digital data to analog sound (audio). Logically, the PC volume control can only be a digital command which instructs the DAC to adjust volume in digital format. This results in the volume then being adjusted in audio (analog) format, just like a volume control. Can you follow this?
Once you have sound in audio or analog format, it is passed to your PC speakers which will contain a pre-amp as part of its internal amplifier and analog volume control. That amplifier combination has the necessary gain to drive its loudspeaker under a second (analog) volume control.
You still seem to have difficulty understanding that any signal adjusted too high for the following stage causes clipping distortion. This is exactly what you do by setting the volume on your PC to "high". This is also what Struth has explained again so I guess you must follow the idea.
As an engineer, you will be well aware of this reality and be required to ensure it doesn't happen in live sound, so hopefully this is just a language translation problem.
The English word "engineer" has an unfortunately broad meaning in common usage. In mechanical terms it can mean anything from someone who knows which end of a spanner to hold, to someone who can design build and test an entire engine from scratch with full mathematical underpinning. Similarly in electronics it can mean someone who knows which valve/PCB to swap in a TV when the picture goes funny, to someone who could design the chips in the TV or the antenna it uses.Ian Finch said:
Some industries have tried to distinguish between operators, fitters, technicians and engineers but this has never trickled down to the general public, who call them all 'engineers'.
A last question please Sir, if I create distortion like you have advised , will it affect the life of my speakers and over hear them or burn them ??
I have heard that clipping does affect speakers in a bad way and cause them to blow up, and I am confused as some studio processors like a CLIPPER or Clipping the Analog to Digital converters or the clipping found in distorted rock guitars, don't seem to burn up any speakers
Thanks in advance for helping me out on this!!
MERCI BEAUCOUP!!In France ; where i did my studies , the title is protected so one cant
brand himself engineer if he doesnt have the grades but unfortunately
the name used as function is not protected so one can be promoted
engineer in a corporate even if it has no legal value....
Offhand I suspect the shitty mixes are hypercompressed and have lots of "peak" content that becomes even more clipped if the DAC clips at or near its peak output, whereas a "good" sounding signal rarely hits the peak and so overall doesn't get nearly as distorted, and so sounds just as clean at any volume.
If you've got a recording input you can use, record the DAC output at 50 percent, and also record it at 100 percent with its output going to an attenuator so that it gets recorded a the same level as the 50 percent output. These two recordings can be compared for distortion and such, especially if they're recordings of a full-scale sine wave. An FFT/frequency analysis showing the levels of the harmonics should tell the story.
This could be a problem with the specific model DAC. What's the manufacturer and model?
It's possible for the DAC chip itself to be fine, but the op-amp buffer chip to be clipping. It could be one or more of several things going on.
All the states in the USA have a title of Professional Engineer which one gets by passing a rigorous test covering all engineering disciplines. It's mainly used by architects, bridge designers, power plant engineers - people whose work, if unsafe, would put the public in danger. Here's an article:
Regulation and licensure in engineering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I recall the state of Texas cracking down on advertised titles such as "sound engineer" when used by someone without a PE, when obviously they weren't offering architectural or similar engineering services that a Professional Engineer would.
Clipping (or whatever exactly is going on to make distortion) does make more harmonic content and puts more power into the tweeters, but it shouldn't be a problem unless it's severe enough that it's obvious to someone without decent ears, and you're playing the speakers really loud. As always, the risk of speaker damage is close to zero until you get to some high volume level, and if these are decent speakers at all, you're also risking hearing damage at that volume.A last question please Sir, if I create distortion like you have advised , will it affect the life of my speakers and over hear them or burn them ??
I have heard that clipping does affect speakers in a bad way and cause them to blow up, and I am confused as some studio processors like a CLIPPER or Clipping the Analog to Digital converters or the clipping found in distorted rock guitars, don't seem to burn up any speakers
Thanks in advance for helping me out on this!!
Hi Guys
Clipping in the small-signal domain at a point in the signal chain prior to where overall loudness is controlled will not damage your speakers.
The sound of individual instruments in modern music is often clipped as part of their tone - a fuzzed guitar, for example. This is mixed with other nondistorted tones and does not effect the health of your speakers.
Clipping the amplifier that is driving your speakers will blow tweeters easily, and the rest over time.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
Clipping in the small-signal domain at a point in the signal chain prior to where overall loudness is controlled will not damage your speakers.
The sound of individual instruments in modern music is often clipped as part of their tone - a fuzzed guitar, for example. This is mixed with other nondistorted tones and does not effect the health of your speakers.
Clipping the amplifier that is driving your speakers will blow tweeters easily, and the rest over time.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
Thank you for the clarification, but the method you advised to produce 10% of distortion , will it destroy the speakers ?
Again thank you so much for your advices!
Hi Guys
Aarvin2, please read the first paragraph of my previous post again, as the answer is there.
The clipped signal is being made in the preamp. Following where it is made, there should be a level control so you can set how loud the signal is that goes to the power amp.
As long as you do not amplify the clipped signal from the preamp to the point where your speaker complain, then there will be no issue with damage to speakers.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
Aarvin2, please read the first paragraph of my previous post again, as the answer is there.
The clipped signal is being made in the preamp. Following where it is made, there should be a level control so you can set how loud the signal is that goes to the power amp.
As long as you do not amplify the clipped signal from the preamp to the point where your speaker complain, then there will be no issue with damage to speakers.
Have fun
Kevin O'Connor
aarvin2,
you have a basic misconception here.
the "level" you set in your PC is not terribly meaningful, no more so than the level you set on a volume control.
what matters is the *actual* level.
That will depend on the level of the original signal or source.
Digital can *not* go past "0vu" which is simply the maximum digital level. If you clip in the digital domain, it is much the same as clipping in the analog domain. It's clipping.
Mixes that are made low enough so that they sound "good" to you at 100% merely are mixed low enough so that peaks do not clip when you put the PC sliders all the way up.
The dynamic range of the mix is important.
Also, when you decrease the level in the digital domain you may be reducing the number of bits available (depending on how it is done), so that the resolution of the signal may be reduced.
_-_-
you have a basic misconception here.
the "level" you set in your PC is not terribly meaningful, no more so than the level you set on a volume control.
what matters is the *actual* level.
That will depend on the level of the original signal or source.
Digital can *not* go past "0vu" which is simply the maximum digital level. If you clip in the digital domain, it is much the same as clipping in the analog domain. It's clipping.
Mixes that are made low enough so that they sound "good" to you at 100% merely are mixed low enough so that peaks do not clip when you put the PC sliders all the way up.
The dynamic range of the mix is important.
Also, when you decrease the level in the digital domain you may be reducing the number of bits available (depending on how it is done), so that the resolution of the signal may be reduced.
_-_-
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