The amplifier is a Thunder TCA-2051
It has a power output of 2 x 60W @ 4 ohm and ~200W Bridged @ 4 ohm, the desired output power is around 1kW bridged.
Currently it runs +-22V and has 2SC5198 2SA1941 as outputs, 2SA1013 2SC2383 as drivers and the rest are 2sc1815 and 2sa1015. (sorry, I don't have a schematic
)
To get the 1kW bridge (or close) I'll need to increase the supply voltage to about +-50V right?
The output/driver transistors are 160V types so they should be able to handle the voltage, but the outputs can can only dissipate 100W each so i'll either need to parallel another 4 pairs on each chanel or use other transistors ( or if there is a way to use the outputs as drivers to drive mosfets ? ).
What modifications will have to be made to the rest of the amp so it doesn't release the "magic white smoke"?
(of course paralleling more mosfets on the supply, replacing the small torroid with a bigger one that can handle the extra power, changing all electrolytic caps, thickening the pcb tracks etc. is obvious.)
Also I know that it's better to buy a bigger amp, but where's the fun in that (besides bigger is currently out of my budget..)
Thanks in advance
T.C.
It has a power output of 2 x 60W @ 4 ohm and ~200W Bridged @ 4 ohm, the desired output power is around 1kW bridged.
Currently it runs +-22V and has 2SC5198 2SA1941 as outputs, 2SA1013 2SC2383 as drivers and the rest are 2sc1815 and 2sa1015. (sorry, I don't have a schematic
)To get the 1kW bridge (or close) I'll need to increase the supply voltage to about +-50V right?
The output/driver transistors are 160V types so they should be able to handle the voltage, but the outputs can can only dissipate 100W each so i'll either need to parallel another 4 pairs on each chanel or use other transistors ( or if there is a way to use the outputs as drivers to drive mosfets ? ).
What modifications will have to be made to the rest of the amp so it doesn't release the "magic white smoke"?
(of course paralleling more mosfets on the supply, replacing the small torroid with a bigger one that can handle the extra power, changing all electrolytic caps, thickening the pcb tracks etc. is obvious.)
Also I know that it's better to buy a bigger amp, but where's the fun in that
(besides bigger is currently out of my budget..)Thanks in advance
T.C.
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You are up to a task of some kond a great proportions here.
Lets start with the desired power output.
1KW ONE channel would require a massive 1600W, or 125Amps from Your car battery/alternator.
So the first stage to do something with is the DC/DC-converter.
A converter capable of delivering theese 1300W of power to the amp
is a quite massive one.
What power there is to be dissipated in the output transistors isn't neccessary equal to what power output you get.
A technique to get the power losses down to earth so to speak, is to let the input swignal determine what powert the DC/DC-converter is to produce for the amplifier.
This requires quite good skills in constructing aswell the amp as the DC/DC-convverter.
I can promise you this:
Your weallet is far better off if You buy a ready-built one.
The world would have been a really beautiful place to live if everything was easy.
But to make theese car-amps is quite tricky, unless you have buckets of power available in your car to feed them.
Another approach would ofcourse be to build a digital amp.
At least you save at least a couple houndred watts heatdissipation.
And the DC/DC-converter canb much easier be made adapteable for the recommended power at any time.
But cheap?
No, not by far.
Lets start with the desired power output.
1KW ONE channel would require a massive 1600W, or 125Amps from Your car battery/alternator.
So the first stage to do something with is the DC/DC-converter.
A converter capable of delivering theese 1300W of power to the amp
is a quite massive one.
What power there is to be dissipated in the output transistors isn't neccessary equal to what power output you get.
A technique to get the power losses down to earth so to speak, is to let the input swignal determine what powert the DC/DC-converter is to produce for the amplifier.
This requires quite good skills in constructing aswell the amp as the DC/DC-convverter.
I can promise you this:
Your weallet is far better off if You buy a ready-built one.
The world would have been a really beautiful place to live if everything was easy.
But to make theese car-amps is quite tricky, unless you have buckets of power available in your car to feed them.
Another approach would ofcourse be to build a digital amp.
At least you save at least a couple houndred watts heatdissipation.
And the DC/DC-converter canb much easier be made adapteable for the recommended power at any time.
But cheap?
No, not by far.
Found this on a site:
Thunder TCA-2051
2 х 60 вата RMS на 4 ома
1 х 150 вата RMS на 4 ома (bridge)
Входове - RCA
Low pass filter - 30 - 250 Hz
High pass filter - 60 Hz - 1,2 kHz
Bass boost - 0-12 dB at 45 Hz
Предпазител - 30 ампера
Made in China
Габаритни размери 235/260/55 мм
I agree with TANDBERGEREN, don't try to modify the one you have...
"(of course paralleling more mosfets on the supply, replacing the small torroid with a bigger one that can handle the extra power, changing all electrolytic caps, thickening the pcb tracks etc. is obvious.)"
Do you think that multiplying everything by 4 (or more) will still fit in that box.
Making the power amp will be relatively easy as there are lots of high power designs available.
Designing the 1600+W (or 3200+W) power supply is what I would like to see...
Good luck
Thunder TCA-2051
2 х 60 вата RMS на 4 ома
1 х 150 вата RMS на 4 ома (bridge)
Входове - RCA
Low pass filter - 30 - 250 Hz
High pass filter - 60 Hz - 1,2 kHz
Bass boost - 0-12 dB at 45 Hz
Предпазител - 30 ампера
Made in China
Габаритни размери 235/260/55 мм
I agree with TANDBERGEREN, don't try to modify the one you have...
"(of course paralleling more mosfets on the supply, replacing the small torroid with a bigger one that can handle the extra power, changing all electrolytic caps, thickening the pcb tracks etc. is obvious.)"
Do you think that multiplying everything by 4 (or more) will still fit in that box.
Making the power amp will be relatively easy as there are lots of high power designs available.
Designing the 1600+W (or 3200+W) power supply is what I would like to see...
Good luck
Car speakers in general is quite sensitive as they are.
Bearing in mind that they are to work under some quite hash conditions.
cSoundlevels in excess of 95dB is under any cirkumstanses no way pleasant anyway.
Well, you do know that inside of those amps is a DC-DC converter that increases the 12V to god knows how much.. If you use only the 12V available I don't think you'll get more than 20-25W @ 4ohm
(I've seen amps (IRL) that claim well above 5KW and deliver that much, but that's a bit too much if you ask me
)(forgot to clarify that it's a sub-woofer, not mids or highs ( lol 1 KW mids/highs.. you'll probably go deaf <1 second after the music starts)
Nah its not an ego thing, It's just that the speaker I'll be driving is 1KW RMS or peak (which isn't specified
) and I thought "why not make the amp 1 KW and turn it down a bit (if it's 1kw peak power), that way the amp and speaker will last longer"..About the "..or speakers that are 4 times as big.." well, the speaker is already 12 inch (or 30cm) making it 4 times as big is 4x12= some kind of insane 48 inch speaker
(and I think most of us here have watched Mythbusters and know what that looks like ) As far as sensitivity goes the speaker is 91dB / 1m
Well I've decided to make my own amp and not modify this one.
Now the question is where to find a suitable amp... Since this will be a bass amp I'm thinking it's best to go with Class D, but the current lack of an oscilloscope (I do have access to one at school and a friend of mine has one that I can use so i'ts not that big of a problem) is kind of a problem, as are most of the parts...
(also there is a thread on the class D forum about a scaleable 25 to 1250W amplifier, but after reading the whole thing I still can't figure out which one is the working schematic/PCB and which one isn't...)
Here's an idea what if I use something like Quasi's Nmos 200 and bridge two, that should give me ~800W (which is perfect) right ? (of course with adequate modifications to the amp)
(this is just an idea, and only in case I don't find anything better (which is doubtful))
The supply will be interesting since the "big" power torroid I had turned out to be a standard torroid (not for switching purposes). I've been thinking, why not use EE or EI cores instead of torroids... I've heard that the EE/EI transformers from old computer supplies are suitable for <300W depending on the type (of course using more than 1 transformer to obtain the power required by the amp). and I do have a few broken supplies lying around....
And again thanks for the answers!
T.C.
Well, you do know that inside of those amps is a DC-DC converter that increases the 12V to god knows how much.. If you use only the 12V available I don't think you'll get more than 20-25W @ 4ohm
(I've seen amps (IRL) that claim well above 5KW and deliver that much, but that's a bit too much if you ask me
Yes, but that's irrelevant. For 1kW output, you have to have at least 1kW input, and more because there is no such thing as 100% efficient. For 12V, that would mean drawing currents of 100A+ for sustained lengths of time. While a car battery will supply that, as it does when starting the car, it is not going to do that for very long. Neither is your alternator.
Also calculate just how thick your speaker wiring would need to be. We're talking cables as thick as those running to the battery.
Even with Class D, on a 12V supply, around 500W is the practical limit. Even this is likely to be peak and not RMS. Any amp claiming to do more than that is just flat out lying - the current draw and the heat produced would be too high.
Yeah, I'm completely aware that the current the amp draws will be huge, but that's why most people who use such high power amps either put a high output alternator or an extra battery (or both)
(or in the case of the 5 KW amp I was talking about, the guy had 2 250A high output alternators and some sort of gell cell battery next to the amp all connected with wires thicker than my thumb, but that was a spl competition car and we're talking about normal stuff here (or at least close to normal
) Besides I haven't seen anyone run a system like that for longer than a minute or so it's just too loud..
Also after taking another look at the speaker it looks like it's about 500W RMS, so there won't really be a need for an amp that can deliver 1kw... So an amp that can deliver 500-600W or so (yes that probably will draw more than 60A) will be ideal ..
and the car this'll be in won't be running the amp at maximum power all the time, it probably will be running at max 200-300W most of the time and at maximum power for either a very short time or for a "SPL competition" even on the competition it won't be run more than a few seconds on full power (or close)...
Sharing soundspace now that's a tough one, seeing as how we live bout' 5000 miles apart, though if I do manage to boost this amp's output to about 1.21GW I might have a shot at it
. Also what's not to like about my soundspace its not like its filled with gigantic woofers n' stuff
Even if it is about ego I wouldn't really care, it's not like this is going in my car (not that I have a car)... It's for a friend.
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