maybe you can help me out, in one of our local sites, i found a thread wherein breaking-in or burning-in of power cords was mentioned as making audio gears sound better!!! and onother actually changed the power cable of his cd player to bigger size and reported improvements in sound, what can you say to all this claims??? any scientific reasons? i seem to be lost....
But are they directional?
But are they directional?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21828
But are they directional?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21828
YES
Yes power cords do affect the sound of all equipment. If you substitute any thin as it comes with the box ac chord with a proprietary one you always get a sure change. It depends on the individual components if they get dissjointed in sound or not. Other power chords give big soundstage and a slaggier bass, other work complimentary and lower grunge aslong as helping bass impact and timing.
As for brake in, it does exist but is not a strong issue. They can sound a bit cleaner after 100 hours or so.
Yes power cords do affect the sound of all equipment. If you substitute any thin as it comes with the box ac chord with a proprietary one you always get a sure change. It depends on the individual components if they get dissjointed in sound or not. Other power chords give big soundstage and a slaggier bass, other work complimentary and lower grunge aslong as helping bass impact and timing.
As for brake in, it does exist but is not a strong issue. They can sound a bit cleaner after 100 hours or so.
Many people say "YES!"
instead of "I think so"
or "NO!"
instead of "I don't think so"
when talking about all kinds of things...
Power cords? I don't think so.
But..... there is alway the possibility that if you are *expecting* to hear an improvement then perhaps your ear/brain actually works more acutely and so you really *do* hear an improvement, but not for the reason that you expected.
I'm prepared to believe that.
instead of "I think so"
or "NO!"
instead of "I don't think so"
when talking about all kinds of things...
Power cords? I don't think so.
But..... there is alway the possibility that if you are *expecting* to hear an improvement then perhaps your ear/brain actually works more acutely and so you really *do* hear an improvement, but not for the reason that you expected.
I'm prepared to believe that.
Hold on to the brick bats for a moment!
IMHO the answer to the topic is a big YES !
But why ? If the power cord ( conductor) is thin , you will get a significant voltage drop across it when your amp draws large amounts of current. That will drop the voltage of your power supply.
If it terminates in a socket there is one additional connector in series. So at two connections there will be voltage drops across the terminals ,sometimes nonlinearly with current. You will be surprised how badly oxidized some contacts can get in certain areas. So these factors summed up will cause fluctuations in the power supply of the amp.
Now it depends on the PSRR of the amp to show up these variations as artefacts in the music. Within limits, amps like the Gainclone should be quite resistant to cable and power connector problems. Tube amps on the other hand are potentially problem prone due to their poorer PSRR capability.
So different systems will have different characteristics . Only way to find out if your system is sensitive to this is to try it out yourself. Be cautious - mains voltages can kill you . Everything should be switched off from the mains sockets and possibly the house mains if you are cleaning up the contacts of your mains sockets.
Cheers.
IMHO the answer to the topic is a big YES !
But why ? If the power cord ( conductor) is thin , you will get a significant voltage drop across it when your amp draws large amounts of current. That will drop the voltage of your power supply.
If it terminates in a socket there is one additional connector in series. So at two connections there will be voltage drops across the terminals ,sometimes nonlinearly with current. You will be surprised how badly oxidized some contacts can get in certain areas. So these factors summed up will cause fluctuations in the power supply of the amp.
Now it depends on the PSRR of the amp to show up these variations as artefacts in the music. Within limits, amps like the Gainclone should be quite resistant to cable and power connector problems. Tube amps on the other hand are potentially problem prone due to their poorer PSRR capability.
So different systems will have different characteristics . Only way to find out if your system is sensitive to this is to try it out yourself. Be cautious - mains voltages can kill you . Everything should be switched off from the mains sockets and possibly the house mains if you are cleaning up the contacts of your mains sockets.
Cheers.
With the exception of Ohm´s Law voltage drops, the rest would appear to be sheer fantasy, sociology, and hype by opportunistic writers, wire companies, and gulls. Or the laws of physics are wrong and your computer now doesn't work.
If you want to convince yorself, look at your amp's power supply rails (with a scope) while playing music or test tones through it. Now change the power cord and do the same thing. Gee, no difference. The laws of physics must be wrong and the power cord peddler is now in line for a Nobel Prize.
If you want to convince yorself, look at your amp's power supply rails (with a scope) while playing music or test tones through it. Now change the power cord and do the same thing. Gee, no difference. The laws of physics must be wrong and the power cord peddler is now in line for a Nobel Prize.
This is exactly the type of argument that can go on and on as I said.SY said:
You are saying that hearing depends on subjective qualities such as expectations , preconceptions , previous beliefs etc. So that I may think I am hearing a difference but in fact I am fooling myself (subconsciously) because I expect to hear a difference where none exists. This is the classical argument of the "scientific" camp to explain why some people might hear a difference where none can be measured by usual equipment.
Hi,
Not making any claims here, just pointing out that it can be measured:
Jennifer Lowpass Powercords.
Cheers,
Not making any claims here, just pointing out that it can be measured:
Jennifer Lowpass Powercords.
Cheers,
Of course if you read carefully what I wrote I never said that science is wrong.
However as everybody here probably knows there has always been a heated argument in hi-fi between subjective and objective evaluation of components.
Both camps have been proven right or wrong as the case may be.
Nevertheless it is wrong in my opinion to say that if it can't be measured then it cannot be heard.It depends what we are measuring and on the various parameters that are decided beforehand. A simple oscilloscope for example will not be enough to determine all important factors.
Sometimes we make assumptions about hearing that are wrong.
For example in a recent study it was found that music or signals over 20khz did bring about measurable differences in a group test subjects even though they could not actually "hear" those signals.
However as everybody here probably knows there has always been a heated argument in hi-fi between subjective and objective evaluation of components.
Both camps have been proven right or wrong as the case may be.
Nevertheless it is wrong in my opinion to say that if it can't be measured then it cannot be heard.It depends what we are measuring and on the various parameters that are decided beforehand. A simple oscilloscope for example will not be enough to determine all important factors.
Sometimes we make assumptions about hearing that are wrong.
For example in a recent study it was found that music or signals over 20khz did bring about measurable differences in a group test subjects even though they could not actually "hear" those signals.
Protos,
I think I can agree with all of what you said.
Edit: There are alternative theories about the human
hearing that are very fascinating, and that I personally
think has at least some truth to it. There is not much
scientific evidence for these theories so far, for lack of
money and interest from traditional medicine, but some
scientific studies are currently being done around the world.
We'll see what the future will reveal.
I think I can agree with all of what you said.
Edit: There are alternative theories about the human
hearing that are very fascinating, and that I personally
think has at least some truth to it. There is not much
scientific evidence for these theories so far, for lack of
money and interest from traditional medicine, but some
scientific studies are currently being done around the world.
We'll see what the future will reveal.
I am in violent agreement with SY as well. If there is a change your PSU is really really marginal.
Paying big bucks fo rthe last 6 feet of wire is really silly when you consider the hundreds of feet of basic romex in your walls.
the voltage drop arguement is really questionable if you ask me, because there is a fuse in series with the cord which will be a much higher value resistor than the cord could ever be.
Anecdote:
I was in the largest audio dealer here in Albuquerque (occupied mexico). They have a main listening room which is so overdamped that it feels like your ear drums are going to get sucked out of your head. They have lots of expensive Krell gear and big B&W speakers. It always sounds awful in there. I go there occasionally (it's across the street from a used record store) to look for used gear. I got sucked into listening to the "big system", and the sales droid was all "jazzed" about a new power cord he had. He was playing beach boys music at me way too loud (-120 dB is too loud for that dreck), and he switched the power cord on a very expensive krell CD player and inflicted that music on me again.
the best part is he asked me a very open-ended question: "what do you think?" Me: "I think if you hear or measure any difference at all, then the power supply in that expensive paper weight is more marginal than even I think it is. " He completely missed my point, and I tried to explain what the basic purposes of a power supply is.
Sheldon
Paying big bucks fo rthe last 6 feet of wire is really silly when you consider the hundreds of feet of basic romex in your walls.
the voltage drop arguement is really questionable if you ask me, because there is a fuse in series with the cord which will be a much higher value resistor than the cord could ever be.
Anecdote:
I was in the largest audio dealer here in Albuquerque (occupied mexico). They have a main listening room which is so overdamped that it feels like your ear drums are going to get sucked out of your head. They have lots of expensive Krell gear and big B&W speakers. It always sounds awful in there. I go there occasionally (it's across the street from a used record store) to look for used gear. I got sucked into listening to the "big system", and the sales droid was all "jazzed" about a new power cord he had. He was playing beach boys music at me way too loud (-120 dB is too loud for that dreck), and he switched the power cord on a very expensive krell CD player and inflicted that music on me again.
the best part is he asked me a very open-ended question: "what do you think?" Me: "I think if you hear or measure any difference at all, then the power supply in that expensive paper weight is more marginal than even I think it is. " He completely missed my point, and I tried to explain what the basic purposes of a power supply is.
Sheldon
Yes...a power cord can make a difference...
Anecdotes support it.
Electromagnetic theory supports it.
Testing can support it..
Anyone game to put together a test setup to prove me incorrect???
(this is gonna be a fun thread, I can see it now..)
Cheers, John
PS...I do not claim to have heard it, or that the effect is above the threshold of audibility, but I can provide a very good argument (IMHO)that it can make a difference...
Anecdotes support it.
Electromagnetic theory supports it.
Testing can support it..
Anyone game to put together a test setup to prove me incorrect???
(this is gonna be a fun thread, I can see it now..)
Cheers, John
PS...I do not claim to have heard it, or that the effect is above the threshold of audibility, but I can provide a very good argument (IMHO)that it can make a difference...
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