My I suggest you become familiar with what a schematic diagram is and how to read one. There are numerous resources out there, many on the internet so just google away. Personally I feel there is no substitute for a good book on the subject. Pay a visit to a library.
Have a read through this and look for other similar information.
Beginners' Guide to Electronics, Part 1 - Basic Components Explained
If you want things to develop you will need to learn how to basically speak the language of electronics.
Have a read through this and look for other similar information.
Beginners' Guide to Electronics, Part 1 - Basic Components Explained
If you want things to develop you will need to learn how to basically speak the language of electronics.
I'm not hating on you. Did I make my post purposely uncomfortable? I tried.
I want to instill some motivation and confidence in you. You are stuck on "transformer" and that isn't the answer you seek.
Transformers do not create power. When you see them used as you're proposing they are being used for impedance matching; a high impedance at the collector is transformed to a low impedance to match the speaker impedance.
My advice to improve your circuit and increase the power output is to properly bias the transistor and increase the power supply voltage. This will require a few more resistors and a couple of capacitors. If you don't have any more parts, then you've reached the end of the road with your circuit, as has been pointed out several times. With more parts, you can get help here with connecting them all together correctly.
Your present circuit only has 5 components; you should understand what the function of each is. If you don't, that is probably the question to ask.
I want to instill some motivation and confidence in you. You are stuck on "transformer" and that isn't the answer you seek. Transformers do not create power. When you see them used as you're proposing they are being used for impedance matching; a high impedance at the collector is transformed to a low impedance to match the speaker impedance.
My advice to improve your circuit and increase the power output is to properly bias the transistor and increase the power supply voltage. This will require a few more resistors and a couple of capacitors. If you don't have any more parts, then you've reached the end of the road with your circuit, as has been pointed out several times. With more parts, you can get help here with connecting them all together correctly.
Your present circuit only has 5 components; you should understand what the function of each is. If you don't, that is probably the question to ask.
You gotta start somewhere and I think you are doing just fine....don't confuse the sometimes sharp criticisms you get here on the forum with hate...Ihave seen very little hate around these parts. Frankly, for 15 I am impressed....continue down this hobby path and someday you will be building cool stuff from scratch and spending gobs of money too...it is a double edged sword...fun hobby but can become an obsession quickly.
If you want to do something really cool and have a little bit of cash I suggest you pick up one of Brian GT's chipamp kits at chipamp.com...they are superb and easy to construct. You will learn a lot on the way and have something you can continue to tweak and make better....probably the best bang for you buck available in amplifiers you can DIY. If you are interested email me, I have a few toroid trannys laying around that, if you will commit to building one of these chipamps, I will literally give you...and I will give you some pointers along the way and help you build it. I even have some cheap binding posts and RCA jacksi will throw in...all you need to buy is the kit and make a suitable chassis and you will have an awesome little 60wpc HiFi amp that is difficult to beat by any standard. So, if you are willing to take this to the next level shoot me an email and I will set you up....
Chipamp.com
All you need is the stereo kit with one power supply and the two amp boards....I think they are $90...there is also another website similar to BrianGT's that sells a kit based on the LM3875 instead of the LM3886....I can't remember the site but someone here will undoubtably know what I am talking about and can chime in.
Cheers,
Jeff
If you want to do something really cool and have a little bit of cash I suggest you pick up one of Brian GT's chipamp kits at chipamp.com...they are superb and easy to construct. You will learn a lot on the way and have something you can continue to tweak and make better....probably the best bang for you buck available in amplifiers you can DIY. If you are interested email me, I have a few toroid trannys laying around that, if you will commit to building one of these chipamps, I will literally give you...and I will give you some pointers along the way and help you build it. I even have some cheap binding posts and RCA jacksi will throw in...all you need to buy is the kit and make a suitable chassis and you will have an awesome little 60wpc HiFi amp that is difficult to beat by any standard. So, if you are willing to take this to the next level shoot me an email and I will set you up....
Chipamp.com
All you need is the stereo kit with one power supply and the two amp boards....I think they are $90...there is also another website similar to BrianGT's that sells a kit based on the LM3875 instead of the LM3886....I can't remember the site but someone here will undoubtably know what I am talking about and can chime in.
Cheers,
Jeff
Hi,
So basically you know nothing, think your amplifier works perfectly,
(which it doesn't), and want to be led by the nose to something
else without having a clue what is going on, you just want to
build stuff from an "idiot proof" guide. It doesn't work like that,
except for building something like a battery powered guitar effects
pedal or headphone amplifier, following a step by step pictorial guide.
You won't learn much though, just being an assembler.
Its tough starting, why not analyse your amplifier in Tina ?
If you can't get past what is in post #41, stick to building well
documented kits and give up any idea you can design anything.
rgds, sreten.
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lol I have no money I don't have a job so there's no way i'll ever be spending anywhere close to that much money on anything
plus I don't have a credit card either so i couldn't buy it even if i wanted to.
I don't get any kind of income either so i'm pennyless I get all my stuff from the dumpsters that are nearby I haven't bought a single penny worth of stuff for my amplifier that i'm making..
except for the subwoofer which my mom bought for me a long time ago when we had enough money but now my mom barely gets 600 dollars a month so there's no way we can buy stuff like that.
we can barely live as it is.
plus I don't have a credit card either so i couldn't buy it even if i wanted to.
I don't get any kind of income either so i'm pennyless I get all my stuff from the dumpsters that are nearby I haven't bought a single penny worth of stuff for my amplifier that i'm making..
except for the subwoofer which my mom bought for me a long time ago when we had enough money but now my mom barely gets 600 dollars a month so there's no way we can buy stuff like that.
we can barely live as it is.
Ok, here's how to get a boatload of parts.
The first thing is to grab all of the old CRT TVs and computer monitors. Open them up, cut out the boards, keep them. They are chock full of very good useful parts. Each thrown out board has at least $100 worth of parts, if you had to order them new. Maybe double that. Not all will be useful, but a whole lot are.
(don't pass up the radios and anything else electronic)
Next download that deja vu reader and the book that was suggested. It is possibly the *best book* ever written to learn something about electronics. Why? Because it is written so that you can read it and skip the math (if you want to). Great book.
Now I do not know where you live, but you can find a local ham radio club online, and maybe email them or go to a meeting and let them know that you are interested in learning about electronics - not everyone will want to help, but chances are you can find people there who will help with ideas, parts and even give you a ride to meetings, etc... some of these folks have rooms full of parts. I do. If you were around here, I'd give you some, no problem.
If you read up a bit, and you can fix some things like guitars and guitar amps, I'd bet you can make enough bucks to feed your hobby. Not to mention doing hi-fi amps and speakers for people in your school.
You might let us know where in the country you are, because someone on DiyAudio just might be next door!
It's cool that you want to build something... you can do it.
I blew up all sorts of stuff when I started out. No clue what I was doing. But it is a GOOD IDEA to follow a simple circuit that is known to work when you start. Again, you can get the necessary parts for such a thing from the places I just said.
You can get help figuring out what parts are the right ones by reading online and asking good questions here.
So your next steps are:
- build up a pile of boards for parts
- identify a few possible simple circuits to build - preferably one with photos illustrating (if you can find that)
- read The Art of Electronics and any other tutorials you can find
- ask here before you go ahead and build the next project for some help and ideas
You will get past the initial difficulties quickly, if you do something like this.
_-_-bear
The first thing is to grab all of the old CRT TVs and computer monitors. Open them up, cut out the boards, keep them. They are chock full of very good useful parts. Each thrown out board has at least $100 worth of parts, if you had to order them new. Maybe double that. Not all will be useful, but a whole lot are.
(don't pass up the radios and anything else electronic)
Next download that deja vu reader and the book that was suggested. It is possibly the *best book* ever written to learn something about electronics. Why? Because it is written so that you can read it and skip the math (if you want to). Great book.
Now I do not know where you live, but you can find a local ham radio club online, and maybe email them or go to a meeting and let them know that you are interested in learning about electronics - not everyone will want to help, but chances are you can find people there who will help with ideas, parts and even give you a ride to meetings, etc... some of these folks have rooms full of parts. I do. If you were around here, I'd give you some, no problem.
If you read up a bit, and you can fix some things like guitars and guitar amps, I'd bet you can make enough bucks to feed your hobby. Not to mention doing hi-fi amps and speakers for people in your school.
You might let us know where in the country you are, because someone on DiyAudio just might be next door!
It's cool that you want to build something... you can do it.
I blew up all sorts of stuff when I started out. No clue what I was doing. But it is a GOOD IDEA to follow a simple circuit that is known to work when you start. Again, you can get the necessary parts for such a thing from the places I just said.
You can get help figuring out what parts are the right ones by reading online and asking good questions here.
So your next steps are:
- build up a pile of boards for parts
- identify a few possible simple circuits to build - preferably one with photos illustrating (if you can find that)
- read The Art of Electronics and any other tutorials you can find
- ask here before you go ahead and build the next project for some help and ideas
You will get past the initial difficulties quickly, if you do something like this.
_-_-bear
okay and i live in SC near orangeburg if anyone knows where that is
there's a radio shack nearby with loads and loads and loads of electronic stuff like transistors diodes resistors and many many variable capacitors and different capacitors and probably new stuff that I haven't seen yet because I haven't been there for a long time.. and I've even seen a amplifier kit that they had.
I also want to try a breadboard instead of soldering..
plus I have a working hard drive platter that I could possibly use for something if i wanted.
there's a radio shack nearby with loads and loads and loads of electronic stuff like transistors diodes resistors and many many variable capacitors and different capacitors and probably new stuff that I haven't seen yet because I haven't been there for a long time.. and I've even seen a amplifier kit that they had.
I also want to try a breadboard instead of soldering..
plus I have a working hard drive platter that I could possibly use for something if i wanted.
I know where it's at, south of Columbia. I've done a little running around in that neck of the woods. Radio Shack still has a little bit of value for some "gotta have it today" stuff, but you should also look in your Yellow Pages for a real electronic parts store. I find nothing wrong with a bit of dumpster diving; remember, every old radio and TV has an audio power amplifier inside it somewhere. Follow the connections back from the speaker(s) and you'll find it.
And you'll also find that breadboards are great for building up and testing a prototype, but they aren't meant for permanent circuits.
And you'll also find that breadboards are great for building up and testing a prototype, but they aren't meant for permanent circuits.
so if I hook a battery to the right spots in the circuit on a tv and hook up my computers output to the right spots in the circuit on the tv
it wilol make the speaker from the TV make sound?
that seems a bit difficult to figure out which wire goes where... cause the circuit could be as small as a human hair
it wilol make the speaker from the TV make sound?
that seems a bit difficult to figure out which wire goes where... cause the circuit could be as small as a human hair
The answer to your question is, yes. But that isn't what I'm referring to. Instead, you can remove the amplifier parts from the TV. The speaker too if you want. All TV amps will be 1 of 3 types: a discrete transistor circuit, a chipamp, or a multi-function IC. The first 2 could be usable fairly easily.
This is something I had thought to bring up before - the TV from which you obtained your transistors had one of these audio amps. In your newbie zeal, I think you zeroed in on the biggest transistor-looking silicon in the TV. I just wanted you to be aware of that. And IMO there's nothing bad about newbie zeal, no matter what your experience, as long as it isn't uncontrolled.
I also should warn you to be careful poking around in an old TV. It's possible that a harmful charge could remain, even after it is unplugged, so stay away from the high voltage sections (picture tube, flyback transformer, nearby capacitors, etc.) As I said, follow the speaker leads back to the PCB and stick to that area. Speaker coupling capacitors and the audio amp will most likely be close to where the speaker leads connect to the board.
BTW, If you have a newer TV with audio-in jacks, you can very easily plug in and play your computer through the TV speakers.
This is something I had thought to bring up before - the TV from which you obtained your transistors had one of these audio amps. In your newbie zeal, I think you zeroed in on the biggest transistor-looking silicon in the TV. I just wanted you to be aware of that. And IMO there's nothing bad about newbie zeal, no matter what your experience, as long as it isn't uncontrolled.
I also should warn you to be careful poking around in an old TV. It's possible that a harmful charge could remain, even after it is unplugged, so stay away from the high voltage sections (picture tube, flyback transformer, nearby capacitors, etc.) As I said, follow the speaker leads back to the PCB and stick to that area. Speaker coupling capacitors and the audio amp will most likely be close to where the speaker leads connect to the board.
BTW, If you have a newer TV with audio-in jacks, you can very easily plug in and play your computer through the TV speakers.
if you can't afford to build, then that is OK.
What you can do for near zero cost is read.
As suggested, the library, or download from the web.
We have other penniless Members here. They can design virtual amplifiers that perform far better than I could ever do.
One of our near penniless Members is about 16years old. He started with us as a beginner a couple of years ago and has surpassed most of us in his achievements.
How could one so young do so well with so little?
He did the "HOMEWORK". He made the effort to learn. We can't learn for you.
What you can do for near zero cost is read.
As suggested, the library, or download from the web.
We have other penniless Members here. They can design virtual amplifiers that perform far better than I could ever do.
One of our near penniless Members is about 16years old. He started with us as a beginner a couple of years ago and has surpassed most of us in his achievements.
How could one so young do so well with so little?
He did the "HOMEWORK". He made the effort to learn. We can't learn for you.
Hi,
And learn to use the TinaTi program you have downloaded. Its like having
a virtual test lab, with all the equipment you could ever need. Its only
failing is actually failure modes, it doesn't model things blowing up !
Quick start guide : http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/sbou052a/sbou052a.pdf
Don't worry about the features you don't need (as yet).
Same with "that book" "Art of E, H&H"* start with the basics and
ignore the stuff you don't need (as yet). Model the circuits inTinaTi.
rgds, sreten.
* A classic, and far better than the courses I did years ago, which
were full of pointless maths and very little practical information.
And learn to use the TinaTi program you have downloaded. Its like having
a virtual test lab, with all the equipment you could ever need. Its only
failing is actually failure modes, it doesn't model things blowing up !
Quick start guide : http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/sbou052a/sbou052a.pdf
Don't worry about the features you don't need (as yet).
Same with "that book" "Art of E, H&H"* start with the basics and
ignore the stuff you don't need (as yet). Model the circuits inTinaTi.
rgds, sreten.
* A classic, and far better than the courses I did years ago, which
were full of pointless maths and very little practical information.
Last edited:
Just want to discuss the flexibility of the heading: “I just designed an amplifier to power big speakers with small voltage!” Just casual talking. Don’t treat as a serious manner.
I do not work for audio industry. Thus, I do not follow traditional audio amplifier design methodology though I have read some famous audio design handbooks for reference. I use self-developed “Energy model” to design audio amplifier. This energy model solves the limitation in traditional audio amplifier design such as high power true class A amplifier. The law of energy conservation states that total energy before and after remains the same. The energy of demand side (A) is the speaker while the energy of supply side (B) is the audio amplifier. It is flexible if only if B > A. The state of energy is started from electrical energy and convert into mechanical energy. In audio amplifier, energy is taken from electricity to amplify small input to higher energy of output signal. In speaker, electrical energy is transferred to mechanical energy for vibration of speaker unit in formation of sound. Please note that alternating current can only cause speaker to sound, but direct current cannot cause speaker to sound.
In supply side, the energy content of audio amplifier is guided by the formula of power, P = V x I where V & I is the output voltage and current. For small output voltage to generate high energy, it requires high current. It is flexible to be done by parallel amplification.
In demand side, the energy content of speaker is guided by the formula of power, P = V2/ Z where V2 is the square of input voltage and Z is the impedance of speaker. For small input voltage to generate high energy, it requires very low speaker impedance. (Z). Since I am not familiar with speaker design, can big speaker be designed by extreme low impedance such that small voltage to generate high energy of speaker to sound loudly? I am not sure. The critical statement is big speaker to be designed with extreme low impedance. Otherwise, low voltage cannot generate high energy to push the mechanical speaker unit. If the statement is “ yes”, then the topic is totally flexible.
Again, jut casual talking. Don’t treat as serious manner.
I do not work for audio industry. Thus, I do not follow traditional audio amplifier design methodology though I have read some famous audio design handbooks for reference. I use self-developed “Energy model” to design audio amplifier. This energy model solves the limitation in traditional audio amplifier design such as high power true class A amplifier. The law of energy conservation states that total energy before and after remains the same. The energy of demand side (A) is the speaker while the energy of supply side (B) is the audio amplifier. It is flexible if only if B > A. The state of energy is started from electrical energy and convert into mechanical energy. In audio amplifier, energy is taken from electricity to amplify small input to higher energy of output signal. In speaker, electrical energy is transferred to mechanical energy for vibration of speaker unit in formation of sound. Please note that alternating current can only cause speaker to sound, but direct current cannot cause speaker to sound.
In supply side, the energy content of audio amplifier is guided by the formula of power, P = V x I where V & I is the output voltage and current. For small output voltage to generate high energy, it requires high current. It is flexible to be done by parallel amplification.
In demand side, the energy content of speaker is guided by the formula of power, P = V2/ Z where V2 is the square of input voltage and Z is the impedance of speaker. For small input voltage to generate high energy, it requires very low speaker impedance. (Z). Since I am not familiar with speaker design, can big speaker be designed by extreme low impedance such that small voltage to generate high energy of speaker to sound loudly? I am not sure. The critical statement is big speaker to be designed with extreme low impedance. Otherwise, low voltage cannot generate high energy to push the mechanical speaker unit. If the statement is “ yes”, then the topic is totally flexible.
Again, jut casual talking. Don’t treat as serious manner.
Ummm... suggest you might want to re-read what my suggestions were?
Your imagination seems to precede the thinking process by a bit. Nothing wrong with imagination, but electronic circuits have two key aspects:
1) they are real, they work by real rules.
2) usually they are done 100% correctly or they do not work at all, or work improperly.
Please re-read the suggestions I made?
thanks.
_-_-bear
hmmm what I'm meaning to say is I don't want to design an amplifier... I just want to build one that works.. is that too hard of a task to ask for?
I've made an amplifier that works.. and it works good.. but could be just a tad bit better..
if I can fit that tad bit better into my amplifier then I would be all set and I wouldn't ask anymore questions.. I'd be a happy camper with my amplifier and I'd be listening to music whenever I want and I wouldn't have to worry about the DC flowing to my speaker anymore..
but the bit of DC is messing everything up so badly..
I think I've finally figured out what he meant when he showed the schematic of the resistor and capacitor together... I think that's it..
I've made an amplifier that works.. and it works good.. but could be just a tad bit better..
if I can fit that tad bit better into my amplifier then I would be all set and I wouldn't ask anymore questions.. I'd be a happy camper with my amplifier and I'd be listening to music whenever I want and I wouldn't have to worry about the DC flowing to my speaker anymore..
but the bit of DC is messing everything up so badly..
I think I've finally figured out what he meant when he showed the schematic of the resistor and capacitor together... I think that's it..
Dear fellow,
I think maybe you are in the wrong hobby?
And yes, building an amplifier that works is a difficult task.
That's like saying, I just want to build an gasoline engine that works. I just want to build a house. Etc.
You have three choices:
1) find, buy, borrow, or beg an existing amplifier from somewhere. (maybe a yard sale)
2) "re-purpose" any existing amp that is part of something else. (any boom box, car radio or transistor radio will outperform your amp 10:1)
3) put an ad onto the local Craigslist: "WTD: amplifier for 15yo's speakers" then say it has to be free... you'll get stuff
4) buy a cheap IC kit on a pcb - they sell them, many electronics suppliers have them @ <$20.
5) buy a cheap IC amp and breadboard the outboard parts
6) learn something and build something from found parts
7) give up, get an after school job and buy an amp from Radio Shack, etc.
Did I say three? well that's three like your amp just needs to work a tad bit better... but this is closer to three than your amp is to working a tad bit better. Sorry to be bluntly direct, but maybe that is needed to get your attention and focus...
You have more than a "bit of DC"... fyi.
_-_-bear
I think maybe you are in the wrong hobby?
And yes, building an amplifier that works is a difficult task.
That's like saying, I just want to build an gasoline engine that works. I just want to build a house. Etc.
You have three choices:
1) find, buy, borrow, or beg an existing amplifier from somewhere. (maybe a yard sale)
2) "re-purpose" any existing amp that is part of something else. (any boom box, car radio or transistor radio will outperform your amp 10:1)
3) put an ad onto the local Craigslist: "WTD: amplifier for 15yo's speakers" then say it has to be free... you'll get stuff
4) buy a cheap IC kit on a pcb - they sell them, many electronics suppliers have them @ <$20.
5) buy a cheap IC amp and breadboard the outboard parts
6) learn something and build something from found parts
7) give up, get an after school job and buy an amp from Radio Shack, etc.
Did I say three? well that's three like your amp just needs to work a tad bit better... but this is closer to three than your amp is to working a tad bit better. Sorry to be bluntly direct, but maybe that is needed to get your attention and focus...
You have more than a "bit of DC"... fyi.
_-_-bear
Someone correct me if I am wrong but the effectice Z of the speaker has to be viewed as a system that is dependant on several factors, one of them being the mass of air moved at a given frequency. For all practical purposes this remains constant and ultimately limits how low your Z can get. Seems to me what you are talking about is a very efficient driver. Sounds like you're describing my 45 SET driving a pair of 98db eff full range drivers. It only puts out about 1.5 wpc but fills my room with enough sound to anger my wife at times....
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