Hi guys new member here, just registered but have been browsing for a few weeks now.
I've just bought one of these amps which arrived from Germany this morning from a seller on ebay.de with the intention of it replacing a pre-power (Croft/Sugden) set up that I currently have.
I also have the Tuner that accompanies this amp, the FM only ST-A6B and which was another reason for buying the amp.
I've also read the excellent thread below last week in it's entirety because the amp I've bought has faulty VU meters and I was looking for some pointers re repair etc.
Anyway as I said the amp arrived this morning and when I opened the box the amp was delivered in there as a smell of electrical burning and I immediately feared the worst however the amp was sold with the description below (translated with Google translate).
I would like to keep the amp as it really is in beautiful condition cosmetically and I'm not keen on looking for another one I have however contacted the seller and I'm just waiting on his response.
Anyway to the point of the post. I'm not going to try to do a repair myself unless it's fairly simply. I'm just trying to pinpoint where the problem might be in order that I can perhaps get a price to repair the amp or to find out if it is indeed worth keeping and having it repaired here in the UK (I'm in Glasgow BTW).
I have some basic electrical skills and I can use a multi-meter. I've never soldered a PCB before however I am a plumber/heating engineer by trade.
I have a soldering iron which I;ve never used and which is a fairly basic one but I'm more than willing to give it a go if needs be.
I hooked the amp up to to a kettle lead and turned her on and absolutely nothing, no lights on the VU meters or inside either so I removed the top and checked for 240v at the on and off switch which there was on the brown wire to the terminal on the right front of the switch then I operated the switch and there was 240v on the orange wire directly in front of the brown wire terminal.
There is also 240v on the orange wire at the top right of the power supply board above one of the fuses and both fuses are fine and that is as far as I've gone.
I've traced the wires from the power supply board and there are three wires coming from it (blue, grey and black) connecting to the board (bottom left side of the amp) with the two large black caps.
This board has five terminals with those three wires from the power supply board connected to three of the terminals then the wires going to PLPS, which are black and grey, are connected to the other two terminals on that board.
I've no idea of the voltages for those five wires so I didn't want to attempt to test those terminals.
Hopefully someone can help me try to identify where the fault might be, I suspect that it might be the power supply board, I had it out of the amp and there is an obvious dry joint on the rear of the board or what looks like one but it may just be corrosion or flux.
Thanks for reading this.
Regards,
Tony
"Hello! Offer is a vintage stereo amplifier from the goldsmith Sony, a very elegant device with a super sound.
Where technically sound only the lights on the VU meters is on the pale and the right VU meter is defective, otherwise it works fine, optical condition in a super collectible condition."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/181121-sony-ta-f6b-psu-repair-54.html
I've just bought one of these amps which arrived from Germany this morning from a seller on ebay.de with the intention of it replacing a pre-power (Croft/Sugden) set up that I currently have.
I also have the Tuner that accompanies this amp, the FM only ST-A6B and which was another reason for buying the amp.
I've also read the excellent thread below last week in it's entirety because the amp I've bought has faulty VU meters and I was looking for some pointers re repair etc.
Anyway as I said the amp arrived this morning and when I opened the box the amp was delivered in there as a smell of electrical burning and I immediately feared the worst however the amp was sold with the description below (translated with Google translate).
I would like to keep the amp as it really is in beautiful condition cosmetically and I'm not keen on looking for another one I have however contacted the seller and I'm just waiting on his response.
Anyway to the point of the post. I'm not going to try to do a repair myself unless it's fairly simply. I'm just trying to pinpoint where the problem might be in order that I can perhaps get a price to repair the amp or to find out if it is indeed worth keeping and having it repaired here in the UK (I'm in Glasgow BTW).
I have some basic electrical skills and I can use a multi-meter. I've never soldered a PCB before however I am a plumber/heating engineer by trade.
I have a soldering iron which I;ve never used and which is a fairly basic one but I'm more than willing to give it a go if needs be.
I hooked the amp up to to a kettle lead and turned her on and absolutely nothing, no lights on the VU meters or inside either so I removed the top and checked for 240v at the on and off switch which there was on the brown wire to the terminal on the right front of the switch then I operated the switch and there was 240v on the orange wire directly in front of the brown wire terminal.
There is also 240v on the orange wire at the top right of the power supply board above one of the fuses and both fuses are fine and that is as far as I've gone.
I've traced the wires from the power supply board and there are three wires coming from it (blue, grey and black) connecting to the board (bottom left side of the amp) with the two large black caps.
This board has five terminals with those three wires from the power supply board connected to three of the terminals then the wires going to PLPS, which are black and grey, are connected to the other two terminals on that board.
I've no idea of the voltages for those five wires so I didn't want to attempt to test those terminals.
Hopefully someone can help me try to identify where the fault might be, I suspect that it might be the power supply board, I had it out of the amp and there is an obvious dry joint on the rear of the board or what looks like one but it may just be corrosion or flux.
Thanks for reading this.
Regards,
Tony
"Hello! Offer is a vintage stereo amplifier from the goldsmith Sony, a very elegant device with a super sound.
Where technically sound only the lights on the VU meters is on the pale and the right VU meter is defective, otherwise it works fine, optical condition in a super collectible condition."
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/181121-sony-ta-f6b-psu-repair-54.html
A caution for newbs and anyone not familiar with the Switchmode power supplies as used in the F6 and identified in the linked thread (a good one):
They are dangerous beasts and obsolete parts you read about can be difficult to substitute so this may not be an easy fix at all. Look at the length and duration of the thread you linked to. It was a long process, even just to get it working properly with Mooly's necessary experience and guidance. I would seek his advice first.
They are dangerous beasts and obsolete parts you read about can be difficult to substitute so this may not be an easy fix at all. Look at the length and duration of the thread you linked to. It was a long process, even just to get it working properly with Mooly's necessary experience and guidance. I would seek his advice first.
Thanks Ian, yes I kinda realised that there is a lot of high voltage stuff flying about inside the amp.
I've contacted a hi-fi tech as I know my limitations but I would still like to do some more basic tests even if that's just to help inform the tech.
The seller, BTW, is refusing to take any responsibility thus far so it looks like I may be stuck with an expensive ornament unless I can get the amp functioning or I may have to cut my losses and sell it on for spares.
Kind regards,
Tony
Thanks, I've opened an e-bay resolution case on both ebay.co.uk and on ebay.de.
I did pay by paypal so I'm going to contact them this morning however I tried to open a dispute last night but paypal just redirected me to ebay.de.
The seller obviously knew that the amp was faulty, I believe he tried it before sending it to me and something blew inside the amp, I can smell an electrical component burning smell which clearly occurred before the amp was put in the packing box, but I think he just took a chance that I would keep it because it is in fantastic condition cosmetically, like new actually.
I knew that the VU meters were faulty before I bought it he sold as working with excellent klang (sound) and said that he accepted returns, he has also over 350 positive feedbacks a lot of which is for selling old hi-fi gear.
A faulty amp sold on ebay uk earlier on this month for £55 plus postage however I paid about £180 inc postage for a working one (sic).
Here are the links to both amp sales.
Tony
Sony TA-F6B Vintage Highend Stereo Amplifier | eBay
SONY TA-F6B INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER FAULTY | eBay
Thanks again.
I opened a case on ebay.de but the case there is now 'closed' on the basis that the seller has refused a return, he is saying that because I opened the amplifier to check fuses and power etc that I have damaged the amp and therefore he has no responsibility now. His answer to the resolution centre is below in quotes.
I've opened a case on e-bay.co.uk and have to wait until Oct 1st before escalating the case on there however how can I escalate the case on e-bay.de?
I called ebay.de customer services last night but the operator told me that they can't support non-German speakers and that I have to go to e-bay.com, presumably he meant e-bay.co.uk which is why I opened a case there.
Regards,
Tony
"I can not accept that the amplifier is to be broken, Auserd would even tinkered."
Hi guys a bit of an update for those interested.
First thing is that the HiFi tech has been in touch and he said that worse case scenario would be that the transformer (PLPS?). He indicated a price for repair which seemed fine but obviously he will have to have the amp to confirm the repair.
There's a couple of threads (below) on Audiokarma one of which mentions the thermal fuse which I've checked and it appears to be okay.
I tested for OC on the soldered terminals on the back of the Power Supply PCB to which it's connected and got a closed circuit.
I'm trying to source two Sony VU 11 meters but not having any luck at the moment however perhaps the existing ones can be repaired or maybe the fact that they didn't work and only light up faintly, according to the seller, is down to the power problem?
Thanks
Tony
Project Amp - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Sony TA-F6B Resto - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
First thing is that the HiFi tech has been in touch and he said that worse case scenario would be that the transformer (PLPS?). He indicated a price for repair which seemed fine but obviously he will have to have the amp to confirm the repair.
There's a couple of threads (below) on Audiokarma one of which mentions the thermal fuse which I've checked and it appears to be okay.
I tested for OC on the soldered terminals on the back of the Power Supply PCB to which it's connected and got a closed circuit.
I'm trying to source two Sony VU 11 meters but not having any luck at the moment however perhaps the existing ones can be repaired or maybe the fact that they didn't work and only light up faintly, according to the seller, is down to the power problem?
Thanks
Tony
Project Amp - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Sony TA-F6B Resto - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums
Sorry to hear of your Ebay problems - hope it gets resolved to your satisfaction, and you at least get a partial or full refund.
This amp is fantastic, when working. Unfortunately mine has stopped working too. Quite gutting after all the effort detailed in that long thread. Can't find anything obviously wrong, but I'm sure it's something to do with that annoying PLPS supply. Incidentally it's VERY common on these amps to have the PLPS capacitors go south and take the amp down. Get your tech to replace all PSU caps with low esr types before doing anything else, though I'm sure if he knows his stuff that'll be the first thing he does. Often that'll solve the problems if everything else is ok, and before anything further was damaged.
Would be nice to come up with an alternative diy psu board that would fit into the same space, and still allow the amp to function to full spec. Those PLPS pcbs are not great quality, especially after all these years and the high temperatures within. Traces can become detached from the board.
Hope you get yours up and running - great design when working as it should.
John.
This amp is fantastic, when working. Unfortunately mine has stopped working too. Quite gutting after all the effort detailed in that long thread. Can't find anything obviously wrong, but I'm sure it's something to do with that annoying PLPS supply. Incidentally it's VERY common on these amps to have the PLPS capacitors go south and take the amp down. Get your tech to replace all PSU caps with low esr types before doing anything else, though I'm sure if he knows his stuff that'll be the first thing he does. Often that'll solve the problems if everything else is ok, and before anything further was damaged.
Would be nice to come up with an alternative diy psu board that would fit into the same space, and still allow the amp to function to full spec. Those PLPS pcbs are not great quality, especially after all these years and the high temperatures within. Traces can become detached from the board.
Hope you get yours up and running - great design when working as it should.
John.
I John, sorry to read that your amp has gone down mate , I found your thread on Pinkfish.
I'm on PF (bought a load of vinyl from Tony L) and I'm on the Wam too, the tech who is going to be looking at the amp comes highly recommended on the Wam, believe he's in Surrey I could give you his details if you like?
BTW, do you know where the fuse is on the PLPS board?
Re the e-bay seller I'm just going to see how it goes with him. The amp is in amazing condition cosmetically, near mint I would say however it is clear that when you take the top off that's it's not been used for an awful long time. I suspect that the e-bay seller bought it cheap from somewhere and thought he was on a winner until he turned it on. Seems that it was working or at least the meters were working after a fashion but I think probably he tested it before sending it to me and it blew then.
Thanks for the VU part numbers.
Tony
PS, that thread of yours was epic, I spent last Sunday reading the entire 54 pages
I John, sorry to read that your amp has gone down mate , I found your thread on Pinkfish.
I'm on PF (bought a load of vinyl from Tony L) and I'm on the Wam too, the tech who is going to be looking at the amp comes highly recommended on the Wam, believe he's in Surrey I could give you his details if you like?
BTW, do you know where the fuse is on the PLPS board?
Re the e-bay seller I'm just going to see how it goes with him. The amp is in amazing condition cosmetically, near mint I would say however it is clear that when you take the top off that's it's not been used for an awful long time. I suspect that the e-bay seller bought it cheap from somewhere and thought he was on a winner until he turned it on. Seems that it was working or at least the meters were working after a fashion but I think probably he tested it before sending it to me and it blew then.
Thanks for the VU part numbers.
Tony
PS, that thread of yours was epic, I spent last Sunday reading the entire 54 pages
Hi Tony.
There isn't a fuse on the PLPS board. The fuses are on the little PCB directly behind the mains input socket. Might be worth checking all those, plus the two wirewound resistors sitting either side of that thermal fuse. They're the components which will suddenly heat up if there's a fault, and they trigger the thermal fuse. The reason they will have heated up, I am sure will be traced to capacitors on the PLPS board. Virtually every thread/forum I have seen regarding faults on these amps have been due to leaking or dried out caps on this board. I'd not turn the amp on again until all those are replaced, and the tech has reset the PLPS voltage. You'll need to connect the PLPS via a grounding clip to the main chassis BTW when doing this. If your tech has the service manual (I'd check, just to make sure he really is doing things as they should be done!) he'll already know this.
Thanks for the offer of the techs details, but I cannot afford to get it fixed at present. It'll be cheaper for me to just buy another amp really, and get the parts I need from that one.
Haha yes it was/is an epic thread. I didn't do anything really was just following the sage instructions of Mooly, Jaycee et al. Extremely helpful folk!
Best of luck with the repair - keeping them crossed for you!
- John
Hi there Jaycee!
No I never did alas. Haven't tried the linear supply either - I just don't have the energy at the moment (long story - blooming health!) to take it all apart yet again. I am 99.9% sure it's one of the replacement 2SC2023 transistors I installed on the PLPS board. The amp was beginning to 'whistle' randomly and that noise came from within the PLPS black aluminium enclosure.
I have my Gainclone, and also a pair of restored Quad IIs to use instead, but if I can purchase another TA-F6B amp and use the properly matched transistors from that, as well as the Hitachi 2SD675 / 2SB655 output transistors hopefully I can get the main amp board back to its stock resistor values in the output section and have it all working again.
- John
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Hi guys, a bit of an update.
I've received a partial refund from the e-bay seller which I'm happy with.
I've paid what I believe to a fair price for a cosmetically mint faulty amp.
I would of course much rather have bought a working amp but not to be sadly.
Thanks to those of you who advised me on the e-bay case thing.
I'll update the thread when the amp is repaired.
Thanks
I've received a partial refund from the e-bay seller which I'm happy with.
I've paid what I believe to a fair price for a cosmetically mint faulty amp.
I would of course much rather have bought a working amp but not to be sadly.
Thanks to those of you who advised me on the e-bay case thing.
I'll update the thread when the amp is repaired.
Thanks
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Thanks John.
I might be reading things wrong here but I'm pretty sure that there is a fuse in the PLPS, see below post of audio Karma.
AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums - View Single Post - Project Amp
Interesting! I'll have to have a look at the circuit diagram and take a look. Don't recall seeing one when I was working on it, but of course that was a while back now.
Good news about the refund
Interesting! I'll have to have a look at the circuit diagram and take a look. Don't recall seeing one when I was working on it, but of course that was a while back now.
Good news about the refund
Hi John, I checked the two glass fuses and the thermal fuse and they all appear to be fine. I also checked for 240v at the amp's power switch and there was on both the brown and on the orange wire when the switch was operated.
I was getting power at the black wire (I think) on the terminal at the board with the big caps on the bottom left hand side of the amp, below the PLPS. Not sure what the voltage is supposed to be there though?
I'm presuming 240v on one of those wires with 24v coming out of the transformer at the right hand side?
Yes a good result with the ebay seller but he asked me to review the negative feedback that I left for him which I did however he was quite cute he left me positive feedback but left a negative comment so I can't ask him to review his feedback however I'm not that bothered as I have fantastic feedback going back about fifteen years.
Tony
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Hi guys, as promised an update for those interested.
The Hi-FI tech has been in touch and said that he's got the amp working, the fault apparently, was a 'broken circuit board' which required 're-building' and he's recommended a service of the switching power unit (replacing capacitors etc) in order to 'prolong life' which I'm going to go along with.
Thanks
Tony
The Hi-FI tech has been in touch and said that he's got the amp working, the fault apparently, was a 'broken circuit board' which required 're-building' and he's recommended a service of the switching power unit (replacing capacitors etc) in order to 'prolong life' which I'm going to go along with.
Thanks
Tony
Time ago I bought an used Technics SU-V5 from Ebay since my (old) SUZ-200 died and I needed an amp during the building of my DIY one (P101 by Rod Elliott).
I asked to the seller if potentiometers and switches was in good state and he assured me that everything was in optimal state.
Then I decided to buy the amp (Euro 70+10 shipping) and after a few days I received it.
When I opened the box the amp's case was yellow due to the fact that the owner clearly smoked like hell and the first thought was "what will be the state of all the pots ??".
When I turned it on it was very difficult to find a position of the volume pot to listen to both channells at the same level, often one of the channells was inaudible...in a few words it was unusable.
Then I contacted the seller and to make a long story short he refunded me the whole shipping and half the price, so I had the amp for "only" 35 Euro.
I cleaned the case (it took almost an hour to clean all the tobacco from the panels and from inside), I literally disassembled all the pots (it was strange that replacing them with pots of the same kind and value but new, the left channell was always much louder than the right one !), cleaned them and I was able to restore it to let the amp sound as it should.
But it lasted a few weeks, after that problems came back again then I decided to disconnect completely the preamp section and to use it as a "pure" power amp.
I will use it with the one that I'm building to bi-amp my speakers.
Regards,
Roberto
I asked to the seller if potentiometers and switches was in good state and he assured me that everything was in optimal state.
Then I decided to buy the amp (Euro 70+10 shipping) and after a few days I received it.
When I opened the box the amp's case was yellow due to the fact that the owner clearly smoked like hell and the first thought was "what will be the state of all the pots ??".
When I turned it on it was very difficult to find a position of the volume pot to listen to both channells at the same level, often one of the channells was inaudible...in a few words it was unusable.
Then I contacted the seller and to make a long story short he refunded me the whole shipping and half the price, so I had the amp for "only" 35 Euro.
I cleaned the case (it took almost an hour to clean all the tobacco from the panels and from inside), I literally disassembled all the pots (it was strange that replacing them with pots of the same kind and value but new, the left channell was always much louder than the right one !), cleaned them and I was able to restore it to let the amp sound as it should.
But it lasted a few weeks, after that problems came back again then I decided to disconnect completely the preamp section and to use it as a "pure" power amp.
I will use it with the one that I'm building to bi-amp my speakers.
Regards,
Roberto
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