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Old 15th September 2012, 10:52 AM   #161
Aniket is offline Aniket  India
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To my experience, few things to consider to get good bass, apart from a good amp and speakers,
1. Use a vented enclosure instead of sealed, sealed enclosures give clean bass but do not reinforce low frequencies, tuned vented or ported enclosures reinforce low freq. and give earthquake like bass and like a hammer in the chest.
2. Placement of the speakers in the room, keep your speakers in the corners of the room, like one in the left and other in the right corner. I would not put my speakers in the center of the room as destructive interference kills bass.

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Old 19th September 2012, 10:44 PM   #162
Bon is offline Bon  Australia
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Originally Posted by Aniket View Post
To my experience, few things to consider to get good bass, apart from a good amp and speakers,
1. Use a vented enclosure instead of sealed, sealed enclosures give clean bass but do not reinforce low frequencies, tuned vented or ported enclosures reinforce low freq. and give earthquake like bass and like a hammer in the chest.
2. Placement of the speakers in the room, keep your speakers in the corners of the room, like one in the left and other in the right corner. I would not put my speakers in the center of the room as destructive interference kills bass.

Thanks and Regards,
Is this a deliberate wind up? I disagree totally. Vented loudspeakers are well known to have extremely poor phase response. They can never be transient correct. Away from the port resonance frequency, the port output becomes quickly out of phase with the direct driver output. Of course the port output can be excessive (boomy) but it will never be as accurate as a correctly sized and critically damped sealed bass box. As for placing the speakers in the corners, this is a sure way of exciting the room modes to the greatest possible extent and drowning the the sound field in bloated bass.
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Old 19th September 2012, 11:39 PM   #163
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As to phase response, any equivalent set of filters has the same phase response.
So if you put a second order high high pass filter on a sealed box you have the same phase response as a reflex with the same f3 and q, but less acoustic output because the power handling factor of a sealed box is set at .8-.85 and that's it, whereas with a reflex box you can get a minimum of 3 and typically six and more with filter assisted alignments.
Again we are involved in semantics, exactly what is meant by "good", extension,
amount both?

In the end what the original poster seems to mean is the punch region bass that most people call "good", and how to get that is no big secret, and you don't need a very special amplifier to do it, all you need is sufficient acoustic output in the 60-80Hz. region, and popular fifteen inch pro type drivers are optimised for it.
rcw
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Old 20th September 2012, 12:50 AM   #164
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by rcw666 View Post
.....no big secret, and you don't need a very special amplifier to do it, all you need is sufficient acoustic output in the 60-80Hz.
again, that is the bass drum boom sound, and not much else than that

in fact, it can/will drown everything else to the extend that you barely hear one single bass note
I hate it

I wonder how that goes into th iron fist bass category, when its in fact is the opposite
Im confused now
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Old 20th September 2012, 03:27 AM   #165
Bon is offline Bon  Australia
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Originally Posted by rcw666 View Post
As to phase response, any equivalent set of filters has the same phase response.
My point is that they are not equivalent for a BR and SB. The very presence of the port provides the majority of phase shifted output around the port pass band, which encompasses two resonance frequencies. Take a signal and phase shift some of its frequency spectrum, and the time domain shape of the signal becomes completely altered. There is output, but not the same shape to the transient as the original signal. A critically damped sealed box has one less resonance to cope with. Coupled with the fact that drivers for sealed box are selected with a lower Fs in mind, I believe, supports my claim that there is less phase shift in the typical pass-band of a sealed box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcw666 View Post
In the end what the original poster seems to mean is the punch region bass that most people call "good", and how to get that is no big secret, and you don't need a very special amplifier to do it, all you need is sufficient acoustic output in the 60-80Hz. region, and popular fifteen inch pro type drivers are optimised for it.
rcw
I have not heard many pro type drivers that are especially accurate for bass. What they are good at is low compression, which will give a strong output. The low compression is a function of the particulars of construction and materials. Typical pro drivers have a relatively high Fs, depending on the port to provide phase shifted output at LF.

I think the original poster was asking about the qualities of an amplifier that provides the subjective impression of iron-fisted bass. Amplifiers definitely sound different in the bass on the same speaker. So it is, meaningful to ask the question regardless of the type of bass loading. I own probably a dozen different power amps, both pro and hi-fi, with power output in the range 100-500 rms wpc into 8 ohms, since I run active 3-ways. The selection of the right amp for the sealed bass sections, is an important element in getting the best sound, which includes bass punch. It's not always about power. My favourite amp for bass punch, can run out of steam at the levels I like, so sadly is not in day to day use.
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Old 20th September 2012, 04:30 AM   #166
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by Bon View Post
Is this a deliberate wind up? I disagree totally. Vented loudspeakers are well known to have extremely poor phase response. They can never be transient correct. Away from the port resonance frequency, the port output becomes quickly out of phase with the direct driver output. Of course the port output can be excessive (boomy) but it will never be as accurate as a correctly sized and critically damped sealed bass box. As for placing the speakers in the corners, this is a sure way of exciting the room modes to the greatest possible extent and drowning the the sound field in bloated bass.
So no phase shift with sealed speakers . transient correct ..
There must be some really bad vented speakers in your neighborhood...

Last edited by a.wayne; 20th September 2012 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 20th September 2012, 04:49 AM   #167
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All of that is totally subjective Bon and you have no measurements or anything else to back it up.

The simple fact is that in the disco/d.j. industry bass that is described that way is achieved in the way I described, and by far most people who hear it do not miss anything bellow it and use such terms as "punchy" etc. to describe it.
In the end two lti systems with the same transfer function have the same impulse response, if they didn't then dsp wouldn't work, and it does.
rcw
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Old 20th September 2012, 07:01 AM   #168
Aniket is offline Aniket  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bon View Post
Is this a deliberate wind up? I disagree totally. Vented loudspeakers are well known to have extremely poor phase response. They can never be transient correct. Away from the port resonance frequency, the port output becomes quickly out of phase with the direct driver output. Of course the port output can be excessive (boomy) but it will never be as accurate as a correctly sized and critically damped sealed bass box. As for placing the speakers in the corners, this is a sure way of exciting the room modes to the greatest possible extent and drowning the the sound field in bloated bass.
I didn't wrote accurate bass, all I mentioned that sealed enclosures would deliver clean bass, but, tuned vented or ported enclosures or Bass Reflex enclosures would give better and punchier bass than sealed enclosures, as a correctly tuned and designed ported enclosure would reinforce low frequencies produced from the back cone of the driver. Consider Bose pro speakers, they sound great, deliver tight bass, from little 4" to 5" drivers as they have very finely tuned ported enclosures.
Also, as the topic of the thread, 'What factors will give iron fist bass', surely ported enclosures would do this better than sealed enclosures. There are some very high power Woofers available and their manufacturers don't recommend sealed enclosures.

Regards,
Aniket
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Old 20th September 2012, 08:58 AM   #169
Bon is offline Bon  Australia
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
So no phase shift with sealed speakers . transient correct ..
There must be some really bad vented speakers in your neighborhood...
Not in my neighbourhood! I avoid them like the plague

Like you said earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
This is becoming a funny thread , the OP ask what gives you tight bass from an amplifier , what does speaker brand , topology or xover used have to do with his amplifier question ...

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