Hi, I found ESP Project schematic diagram by Google search. Don't ask me the link or schematic. If you are lucky you will find the link.
I am confused
!!! Is it legal to post the link here or not!!! Because it is already available in internet legally with 100% same schematic diagram & 100% with component value (!!! the designator itself same).
Now i have the schematic diagram, PCB & all the component's. (I am using BUZ900p & BUZ905P MOSFET'S).
Now i have some doubt in testing.
1.How much bias current i can set for the SUB-AMP.
2.Initially i am using single pair of mosfet for test. Is it necessary to add 0.1E resistor at the output of MOSFET?
3.For testing my supply voltage is +33V & -33V (24-0-24 transformer).
4. (General question) Can i move the 0.1E resistor from output side to the supply side.(That is from Source of the MOSFET to Drain of the MOSFET). Will it make any problem?
Here i have attached the 3D placement of the my PCB design. Its almost clone of the original in placement.....
Regards
Udhay
I am confused
!!! Is it legal to post the link here or not!!! Because it is already available in internet legally with 100% same schematic diagram & 100% with component value (!!! the designator itself same).Now i have the schematic diagram, PCB & all the component's. (I am using BUZ900p & BUZ905P MOSFET'S).
Now i have some doubt in testing.
1.How much bias current i can set for the SUB-AMP.
2.Initially i am using single pair of mosfet for test. Is it necessary to add 0.1E resistor at the output of MOSFET?
3.For testing my supply voltage is +33V & -33V (24-0-24 transformer).
4. (General question) Can i move the 0.1E resistor from output side to the supply side.(That is from Source of the MOSFET to Drain of the MOSFET). Will it make any problem?
Here i have attached the 3D placement of the my PCB design. Its almost clone of the original in placement.....
Regards
Udhay
Attachments
why don't you communicate with Rod Elliot directly?
Elliott Sound Products - The Audio Pages (Main Index)
Elliott Sound Products - The Audio Pages (Main Index)
I am confused
Just because something is already on a web page does not make it legal. Whoever put the schematic with component values online broke the trust and agreement with ESP.
ESP will not give you any help because you did not buy the PCBs from him and used a stolen schematic to build. Would you help somebody that had stolen from you? You should report the web page to ESP.
I agree with Richieboy...you may not get much help from members. Why not build as designed and bring up slowly on a variac?
And I think those MOSFETS are to be soldered on the underside of the PCB, not on top of it, so they can be bolted on a heat sink.
I have built the P-101. Excellent amp. A friend just had to have it, so I reluctantly sold it. I now have another ESP PCB and all the parts to build another....time...
And I think those MOSFETS are to be soldered on the underside of the PCB, not on top of it, so they can be bolted on a heat sink.
I have built the P-101. Excellent amp. A friend just had to have it, so I reluctantly sold it. I now have another ESP PCB and all the parts to build another....time...
Thanks for the reply. I am using the word "legal" & highlighted it because you know why??? Because i found the schematic link in "US PATTERN REGISTRATION".
How do you say it is illegal & stolen schematic??? & the US pattern drawing provides me (& all) the open source schematic diagram, then how can i complaint to Rod Elliot?????
I think now i can use the word legally & if the schematic is available then what is the problem to make my own PCB & amp????
I know i didn't purchase the PCB from ESP so i can not get help from Rod Elliot. That is why i am asking help from peoples like you!!! If you can... Please help me...
For only PCB designing & for 3D view only he MOSFET shown in top side of the PCB. Actually the MOSFET will be under the PCB as like original design...
Finally.... i hope i am not doing anything wrong or illegally because i got the schematic from a legal website (Designed-2008, published-2011). Anyway today i will send the link to ESP-Rod Elliot...
If anybody know the bias current... please let me know.....If you wish.....
Thanks & Regards
Udhay
How do you say it is illegal & stolen schematic??? & the US pattern drawing provides me (& all) the open source schematic diagram, then how can i complaint to Rod Elliot?????
I think now i can use the word legally & if the schematic is available then what is the problem to make my own PCB & amp????
I know i didn't purchase the PCB from ESP so i can not get help from Rod Elliot. That is why i am asking help from peoples like you!!! If you can... Please help me...
For only PCB designing & for 3D view only he MOSFET shown in top side of the PCB. Actually the MOSFET will be under the PCB as like original design...
Finally.... i hope i am not doing anything wrong or illegally because i got the schematic from a legal website (Designed-2008, published-2011). Anyway today i will send the link to ESP-Rod Elliot...
If anybody know the bias current... please let me know.....If you wish.....
Thanks & Regards
Udhay
Udhay,
I think that you need to understand how the patent and copy-write laws work in the United States. All patent are published and the exact circuit is listed and covered by applicable laws. I do not know if they have also taken out international patents but if they have you may have committed a crime by not only copying the design but also if you try and make this available for copy to others. If ESP did not internationally patent the design then you can probably legally use this information in your own country I assume. But I would look into how that works, there may be cooperative agreements between our countries. I think that you will find you are on your own by most on this site.
I think that you need to understand how the patent and copy-write laws work in the United States. All patent are published and the exact circuit is listed and covered by applicable laws. I do not know if they have also taken out international patents but if they have you may have committed a crime by not only copying the design but also if you try and make this available for copy to others. If ESP did not internationally patent the design then you can probably legally use this information in your own country I assume. But I would look into how that works, there may be cooperative agreements between our countries. I think that you will find you are on your own by most on this site.
I guess the same goes for cloning a KRELL and all the other illegal things going on here and everywhere else in the world. Everyone in the world should be sued by everyone else or jailed for copying something someone else did, draw, said, thought or wrote. If it cannot be proven beyond a doubt that you are profiting from someone else's patent, what is there to sue for? Zero as a percentage of zero profit is quite affordable actually.
However, it is unethical and I maintain that you should contact Rod directly for information, it is his product and if we help you we are just as unethical. There is nothing on Rod's site that prohibits anyone from doing his own thing, it is in the public domain. Rod encourages you to buy his products because that is what puts bread on his table. Think of it you have just cost him a meal and asking for more free information from us would be even more unfair to him.
If you cannot work out what to do with it then you should not have nicked it.
However, it is unethical and I maintain that you should contact Rod directly for information, it is his product and if we help you we are just as unethical. There is nothing on Rod's site that prohibits anyone from doing his own thing, it is in the public domain. Rod encourages you to buy his products because that is what puts bread on his table. Think of it you have just cost him a meal and asking for more free information from us would be even more unfair to him.
If you cannot work out what to do with it then you should not have nicked it.
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Nico,
I think that if you look at other clones it may be a different story. If you just look at a circuit and make a copy for yourself you probably wouldn't have much of a problem even if it is technically not legal. But I think and correct me if I am wrong that most cloned circuits are not exact clones of the board art layouts? If someone doesn't own the basic circuit layout but does own the copy-write to the actual board layout artwork would you copy the artwork exactly? I am not a lawyer, but I think that there are some gray areas here. How many actual circuits are patented verses the actual board layout? I bet there is a copy-right symbol on the boards that ESP sells on their site.
I think that if you look at other clones it may be a different story. If you just look at a circuit and make a copy for yourself you probably wouldn't have much of a problem even if it is technically not legal. But I think and correct me if I am wrong that most cloned circuits are not exact clones of the board art layouts? If someone doesn't own the basic circuit layout but does own the copy-write to the actual board layout artwork would you copy the artwork exactly? I am not a lawyer, but I think that there are some gray areas here. How many actual circuits are patented verses the actual board layout? I bet there is a copy-right symbol on the boards that ESP sells on their site.
My P101 is built using pcbs that I bought from Rod (ESP). His boards are not expensive and I buy them from Rod to help him continue his work.
Udhay,
For sub it is enough to bias 20mA. But you can go to 100mA if you have BIG heatsink.
Everything you need to know about biasing MOSFETS is in National Semiconductor Application Note AN-1645!
Udhay,
For sub it is enough to bias 20mA. But you can go to 100mA if you have BIG heatsink.
Everything you need to know about biasing MOSFETS is in National Semiconductor Application Note AN-1645!
legal my .... foot
Udhay claims that "Because it is already available in internet legally with 100% same schematic diagram & 100% with component value".
This is complete rubbish, and is not the case at all - the schematic and PCB layout are copyright, and are normally maintained in a secured website. Access is granted to people who buy the boards, and someone appears to have violated not only my copyright but also my trust.
To say that I'm not impressed is putting it mildly, and I'm disappointed that the moderators have allowed the post (and the poster) to remain. If this were the ESP forum, the perpetrator would be banned immediately and permanently.
I'm really getting sick and tired of a...holes stealing my circuits and articles. A huge amount of work goes into developing and testing a project, then some clown comes along and just steals stuff, then comes out with bollocks about it being "legal".
Udhay claims that "Because it is already available in internet legally with 100% same schematic diagram & 100% with component value".
This is complete rubbish, and is not the case at all - the schematic and PCB layout are copyright, and are normally maintained in a secured website. Access is granted to people who buy the boards, and someone appears to have violated not only my copyright but also my trust.
To say that I'm not impressed is putting it mildly, and I'm disappointed that the moderators have allowed the post (and the poster) to remain. If this were the ESP forum, the perpetrator would be banned immediately and permanently.
I'm really getting sick and tired of a...holes stealing my circuits and articles. A huge amount of work goes into developing and testing a project, then some clown comes along and just steals stuff, then comes out with bollocks about it being "legal".
RodE,
Glad you set that correct, it was what I assumed. I can't go copy a book and put it on the internet any more than others should copy the artwork for one of your boards. I have been on your site many times myself as I learn plenty reading what you have there. I would gladly pay for a board from your site if that is something that I want. You are doing people who are in this hobby of DIY a favor with your work. I think that we should all respect each others hard work. Yes we can look at something, even see it in the patent listing, doesn't mean it is there to be copied. I assume that all your articles are copy-written and that your boards have the copy-write symbol on them and the same with your published schematics.
Steven
Glad you set that correct, it was what I assumed. I can't go copy a book and put it on the internet any more than others should copy the artwork for one of your boards. I have been on your site many times myself as I learn plenty reading what you have there. I would gladly pay for a board from your site if that is something that I want. You are doing people who are in this hobby of DIY a favor with your work. I think that we should all respect each others hard work. Yes we can look at something, even see it in the patent listing, doesn't mean it is there to be copied. I assume that all your articles are copy-written and that your boards have the copy-write symbol on them and the same with your published schematics.
Steven
Udhay claims that "Because it is already available in internet legally with 100% same schematic diagram & 100% with component value".
This is complete rubbish, and is not the case at all - the schematic and PCB layout are copyright, and are normally maintained in a secured website. Access is granted to people who buy the boards, and someone appears to have violated not only my copyright but also my trust.
Agreed, and if any of that info had been posted here it would be removed.
Fair enough, that's your forum, and you can run it as you choose. However, that can be counterproductive. Imagine someone sees these boards on the internet and googles for more information. It is likely they will be directed to diyAudio, possibly even this thread, where they can see that the boards are unauthorised and they are unlikely to get any support or help. However if we leave threads like this visible, people may realise their mistake.
We do support websites like yours that are a great resource to the hobby, and we always try to remove any of your, (or others) schematics posted here. Sometimes we may need a reported post to do so, as the site is large and we can't watch everything all the time, but we always act on copyright infringement.
But now that "clown" knows better. Rod, I appreciate your anger, but unfortunately copyright infringement is, and always will be, part of society. It's how the British created the industrial revolution, how the US became a world power around the beginning of the 20thC, how Japan developed after WWII, and the process continues today. All we can do is try and mitigate its worst excesses in our little diy bubble, and we will do that to our utmost abilities.
RodE,
I m very sorry, i don't know, is it right way i am going or not!!! I am a college student, as i said earlier i dont have much experience in analog design. I didn't search for clone or schematic of your project. I do a general search & i surprised your circuit is available in internet!!!!!
I don't want to put the link or schematic here....
I will contact you directly through email....
If you want to contact me, my email ID is [
email removed by moderation, pm your email instead]
Sorry again it's not my fault.....
Regards
Udhay
I m very sorry, i don't know, is it right way i am going or not!!! I am a college student, as i said earlier i dont have much experience in analog design. I didn't search for clone or schematic of your project. I do a general search & i surprised your circuit is available in internet!!!!!
I don't want to put the link or schematic here....
I will contact you directly through email....
If you want to contact me, my email ID is [
email removed by moderation, pm your email instead]Sorry again it's not my fault.....
Regards
Udhay
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Udhay,
Just do the right thing...your apology is a great start.
As far as your P-101, I tried biasing mine high into class A and got a lot of hum - now I did try more capacitance, but the circuit does not lend itself to higher bias over the recommended bias. If you build it like Rod recommends you will be happy. If you build with Rod's boards, both of you should be happy.
I don't know how all the work you did with the 3D rendering and pcb fab could be cheaper than just buying the boards...
Just do the right thing...your apology is a great start.
As far as your P-101, I tried biasing mine high into class A and got a lot of hum - now I did try more capacitance, but the circuit does not lend itself to higher bias over the recommended bias. If you build it like Rod recommends you will be happy. If you build with Rod's boards, both of you should be happy.
I don't know how all the work you did with the 3D rendering and pcb fab could be cheaper than just buying the boards...
Thanks for everybody.... Before starting this thread, i have only one question-- is it legal or not--, But now i understood the only legal way is... get PCB directly from ESP.....
Sorry i will never post the link, schematic through forums or by email...
I want to say one thing if i am a bad guy then i will silently make money using your design or i will spread the schematic in internet & i will never ask the question "is it legal"......
I don't know some guys may already have this link & may play game in background... But Rod should think this is the best opportunity to know his schematic available in internet.... Try to stop it... I dont know how?.. But if you can or if it is necessary, remove this thread form Diyaudio itself......
Thanks
Regards
Udhay
Sorry i will never post the link, schematic through forums or by email...
I want to say one thing if i am a bad guy then i will silently make money using your design or i will spread the schematic in internet & i will never ask the question "is it legal"......
I don't know some guys may already have this link & may play game in background... But Rod should think this is the best opportunity to know his schematic available in internet.... Try to stop it... I dont know how?.. But if you can or if it is necessary, remove this thread form Diyaudio itself......
Thanks
Regards
Udhay
This gets worse ...
Udhay was right - the schematic with all values was posted on-line. I have seen the site, and it's the most blatant case of intellectual piracy I've seen so far.
Several of my schematics have been used (modified or redrawn) in ... wait for it (you won't believe me ... ) a PATENT APPLICATION.
This includes P101 and several others. No reference, no link, no acknowledgement. Just stolen circuits in their pointless patent application that I will now do my best to kill before it breeds. I have the names including that of their employer, and will publish a page citing these cretins as the intellectual pirates they are.
Udhay - you will find that after you have gone to all the trouble of doing a PCB layout and having boards made, that it would have been cheaper to get them from me, and you'd get support as well.
Udhay was right - the schematic with all values was posted on-line. I have seen the site, and it's the most blatant case of intellectual piracy I've seen so far.
Several of my schematics have been used (modified or redrawn) in ... wait for it (you won't believe me ... ) a PATENT APPLICATION.
This includes P101 and several others. No reference, no link, no acknowledgement. Just stolen circuits in their pointless patent application that I will now do my best to kill before it breeds. I have the names including that of their employer, and will publish a page citing these cretins as the intellectual pirates they are.
Udhay - you will find that after you have gone to all the trouble of doing a PCB layout and having boards made, that it would have been cheaper to get them from me, and you'd get support as well.
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