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Old 12th June 2012, 07:26 PM   #21
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there is got to be some joke in your post or at least this is the way i see it ...

Your amplifier has a gozillion troubles next to the Perreaux and only a few design innovation but most of them is how to make the amp to produce more power with less supply which also equals to loads of distortion capacitors inside are dead all ready since placed horizontally
and when your amplifier shelf destructs after the famous trans motor fails which actually costs almost 200 usd retail prize
if then this will fail from bearings you will never know and the all amplifier will boil before protection clicks

happened already 6 times in 5 years and my shop is small and my country is small so not so many Crowns exist here of that era

When the time comes and it will need a repair its a nightmare to rewire the board disconnect almost anything to replace small capacitors that are dead already...

So NO !!! you have an amplifier in your hands that is a different design than the conventional amps but other than that it cannot be compared to the above amplifier to any qualities except may be more dirty power ....
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Old 12th June 2012, 07:31 PM   #22
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o yes ...i forgot .... mospec is a trusted manufacturer for outputs ...BC ext philips parts also for capacitors ....but this is not excellent quality ...its just average

there is nothing extreme about the amp you posted only the weird cooling system ....(transmotor)
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Old 12th June 2012, 07:32 PM   #23
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Looks OK but there are lots of areas where the purists will disagree with the design.

Relays in the Outputs - always controversial.

Lots of push on connectors - always controversial.

More capacitors than E-Bay - always controversial.

There is more to an amp than just making it look pretty.
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Old 12th June 2012, 07:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KatieandDad View Post
Looks OK but there are lots of areas where the purists will disagree with the design.

Relays in the Outputs - always controversial.

Lots of push on connectors - always controversial.

More capacitors than E-Bay - always controversial.

There is more to an amp than just making it look pretty.
no comments here .... from my point of view when it comes to design an amplifier you always have to give something to get something else .... given that there is a lot of high quality amps out there the difference between them will be what you described above choices between simplicity and quality or choices between safety and quality ... got your point though thanks for the input

Kind regards
sakis
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Old 12th June 2012, 07:40 PM   #25
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Having said that - the Topic is how to Make a PROPER amplifier.

NOT How to make the perfect amplifier.
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Old 12th June 2012, 07:43 PM   #26
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well the perfect amplifier doesn't exist !!! it only exists in our fantasy there is a million variables to define perfection .... so ...choose one ( or a few ) and go ahead !!!

that was a good one though !!!!
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Old 12th June 2012, 11:42 PM   #27
AKSA is offline AKSA  Australia
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I think this points up the huge difference in viewpoints from those who design, those who listen, and those who repair.

Sakis, a very good commentary. I actually agree with A. Wayne, not such a wonderful sounding amp, but everything easy to work on and very solidly and conventionally designed and built. Good amp to own - a Mercedes, rather than a Jaguar.....

Hugh
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Old 13th June 2012, 12:27 AM   #28
Bonsai is offline Bonsai  Taiwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekko View Post
This is how amplifiers should be made, big, heavy and needing a engine hoist/fork lift to lift/move them.

None of that plastic featherweight class d crap you see in the stores nowdays.
Fully agree.
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Old 13th June 2012, 06:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sakis View Post
there is got to be some joke in your post or at least this is the way i see it ...

Your amplifier has a gozillion troubles next to the Perreaux and only a few design innovation but most of them is how to make the amp to produce more power with less supply which also equals to loads of distortion capacitors inside are dead all ready since placed horizontally
and when your amplifier shelf destructs after the famous trans motor fails which actually costs almost 200 usd retail prize
if then this will fail from bearings you will never know and the all amplifier will boil before protection clicks

happened already 6 times in 5 years and my shop is small and my country is small so not so many Crowns exist here of that era

When the time comes and it will need a repair its a nightmare to rewire the board disconnect almost anything to replace small capacitors that are dead already...

So NO !!! you have an amplifier in your hands that is a different design than the conventional amps but other than that it cannot be compared to the above amplifier to any qualities except may be more dirty power ....
I would have to respectfully disagree with you there. If you are talking about building the perfect amplifier, that is a different matter but when you say proper you normally take price into account. How much does a Perreaux 350 cost? I picked up my Crown for $75, made $50 worth of upgrades, and nearly tripled the quiescent current. Now it really sounds sweet (especially since it includes native support for balanced audio).

I spent a couple weeks combing over the input board, power supply, and output boards while I was repairing three of these and everything is arranged very well. There are no electrolytic capacitors in the signal path and the number of electrolytics used is very small. There are also 8 output transistors and 8 driver transistors that help to even the load. The amplifier is silent when not playing and music from my computer is highly detailed. DC offset is +/-1mV!!!

The filter capacitors (originals from 1994) were still functioning, although bass definition was reduced. Still, these were more than 16 years old so I don't blame them for drying up a bit.

I made the following upgrades:

-Replaced the stock Philips 6300uf filter capacitors with 9900uf, 100v banks of Cornell Dubilier capacitors. The stock ones were physically larger because they had to withstand 125 volts of electricity for 70 volt mode!
-Replaced all of the electrolytics (10 total not including filter capacitors) with new, high quality models.
-Swapped out the ceramics in the signal path with film versions.
-Added 22uf paralleling capacitors across the leads of the filter capacitors
-Cleaned the inside of the case and upgraded the power supply thermistors with hardier versions.
-Boosted quiescent current from 15mA per transistor pair to 35mA per pair.

Anyway, sound quality now rivals that received from the improved headphone amplifier I built for my brother. There are also far less wires to mess with than those in the Perreaux and I rebuilt one Crown completely in a few hours. Finally, the output transistors are laid out on much larger heatsinks with much greater heat dissipation area. As I said before, the fan on the fanformer hardly ever turns on. It hasn't yet for me even with the quiescent current nearly tripled.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I wouldn't put down an amplifier that has a fundamentally sound, innovative design but that can be upgraded to sound amazing easily and cheaply! After these upgrades, I get 250 watts of CLEAN power per channel!
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Old 13th June 2012, 07:04 AM   #30
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Hi Sakis,
Do you have service manual for this amplifier,or schematic maybe?
If you do, pls e-mail it to me at audiobard@yahoo.com
Thanks
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