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Old 3rd April 2013, 12:33 AM   #271
chunek is offline chunek  Singapore
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Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your recommendation and will look into the NFB shunt cap for next mod! The original combination of 4.7uf input cap and 220uf NFB shunt cap, the bass is muddy and no layering on my speakers. Reducing the input cap, the details of the bass start to coming out but it is still too draggy for my taste. The roll off frequency is still around 1Hz plus with 1.53uf.

By reducing on board cap from 470uf + 100uf to 47uf + 2.2uf, the bass start to clock right to my speakers. It came out note by note with good layering and not disturb other instruments when all instruments come into play. This may possible due to increasing the charge and discharge rate of cap with smaller cap. (To increase the charge capacity I use high voltage rating 400V 47uf cap) This is purely my own preference.

I enjoy Honey Badger even with the original setting.

James

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
Bigger input cap = warmer/distortion
Smaller input cap = clearer/colder and less low pitches
Smaller NFB-shunt cap = warmer/distortion
Bigger NFB-shunt cap = clearer/colder and better quality lowest pitches
*The above adjusts bass harmonic balance, but if you want to adjust bass roll off then:
Bigger input cap+Bigger NFB-shunt cap = deeper

for indoor or general purpose use, I suggest 440uF for clearer low pitches.

Last edited by chunek; 3rd April 2013 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 3rd April 2013, 05:14 AM   #272
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Oh, thanks for the info! 2u2 for C11, C15?
I see that R32, probably need to be changed from resistors to diode drops (or diode series to resistor) to give consistent performance.
So, it would be fairly orthodox to use 100u for C11, C15, but actually needing 2u2 indicates that "something else" is going on, such as the schematic's power decoupling for predrive section, has not fully worked for high speed transients. Power board umbilical cable, chassis layout and transformer voltage could foobar resistors somewhat, so we probably need something more than mild suggestion of current drop--it needs an assured voltage drop with regulators, or with diodes like the Hafler DH-220. The diodes could make C11, C15 work as expected so that the 220u (or 100u) work properly and without hindrance from all of the other power caps in the system.

If your little cap is also the most efficient cap, that option works too.

Other possibility:
Your 220u didn't like the 100n guesswork/shotgun bypass at all? That could happen and would be ringing (and arbitrarily non-specific bypass ringing in the power circuit is rather destructive to predrive audio quality). It is possible to replace the 100n with a 0.47u bipolar electrolytic to resolve that problem. Would look crazy and be hard to explain, but tiny bipolar electrolytic just blend easier with big caps, with much less chance of ringing. Try Nichicon ES for the little one.

The two possibilities are:
The simple version of the circuit just wasn't effective enough, Or
A certain model of 220u set up ringing conflict with a certain model of 100n
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Last edited by danielwritesbac; 3rd April 2013 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 3rd April 2013, 07:12 PM   #273
bkevin is offline bkevin  United Kingdom
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Thanks everyone!
Now that I know we're looking at 2 months+ for the PSU PCB's (thx variac for finally putting me and I'm sure many others out of my misery on that score) I'll look at other options, and "wiring together" a psu seems to be eminently achievable (Thx Lou & James for sharing your experience).
Lou, just so I understand - you said "If reducing the current density of power rail to AWG 16" - I guess you meant to say "if increasing current density"? [smaller conductor = higher current density]? I'm hoping i understood you - but not so sure now.
thx
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Old 3rd April 2013, 08:46 PM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkevin View Post
Thanks everyone!
Now that I know we're looking at 2 months+ for the PSU PCB's (thx variac for finally putting me and I'm sure many others out of my misery on that score) I'll look at other options, and "wiring together" a psu seems to be eminently achievable (Thx Lou & James for sharing your experience).
Lou, just so I understand - you said "If reducing the current density of power rail to AWG 16" - I guess you meant to say "if increasing current density"? [smaller conductor = higher current density]? I'm hoping i understood you - but not so sure now.
thx
Hi bkevin,

Let us just use the word of current capability. Current density is the wrong word that I used before.

AWG 16 has a diameter of 0.0508 inch while AWG 14 has a diameter of 0.0641
So AWG 16 (thinner) is capable to carry less current than AWG 14.

And solid wire has more current capability than multi strain wire

There is also a rule of thumb that ground wire should be at least 4X of the current capability than the corresponding signal wire

Ground plane is supposed to be a perfect conductor. Relatively speaking. And 4X is a good starting point.

Lou
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Old 4th April 2013, 02:19 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kclusa@yahoo.co View Post
By changing the current density ratio between ground and power rail to cap, you can also adjust the tonal balance of the sound. If all wire is AWG 14 solid wire, sound is very clean. If reducing the current density of power rail to AWG 16, sound is more vibrant although not that well focused.

With the default PSU board, you lost that option for tuning capability. The board layout already defines the current ratio between power and ground.

Just my experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunek View Post
By reducing on board cap from 470uf + 100uf to 47uf + 2.2uf, the bass start to clock right to my speakers. It came out note by note with good layering and not disturb other instruments when all instruments come into play. This may possible due to increasing the charge and discharge rate of cap with smaller cap. (To increase the charge capacity I use high voltage rating 400V 47uf cap) This is purely my own preference.
Thank you Andrew for the voice of reason.

Why are posts like the ones quoted left mainly unchallenged?
How many newcomers/amateurs get pulled in by this?

Also looking at Daniel here, who has been warned not long time ago.
At least the above quotes have 'personal preference/experience' disclaimers.
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Old 4th April 2013, 02:26 PM   #276
chunek is offline chunek  Singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
If your little cap is also the most efficient cap, that option works too.

Other possibility:
Your 220u didn't like the 100n guesswork/shotgun bypass at all

The two possibilities are:
The simple version of the circuit just wasn't effective enough, Or
A certain model of 220u set up ringing conflict with a certain model of 100n
Hi Daniel,

Possible my 220uf didn't work well with 100n.

The current one, I am using Phillips 250V 2.2uf. For normal listening, I just turn on 5% volume, at most 20% ONLY. It is working fine. So far it didn't go beyond that. As what you said, I am worried also as this little cap may not be able to support full volume. I will try it this weekend.


James

Last edited by chunek; 4th April 2013 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 4th April 2013, 03:21 PM   #277
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discrete View Post
Thank you Andrew for the voice of reason.

Why are posts like the ones quoted left mainly unchallenged?
How many newcomers/amateurs get pulled in by this?

Also looking at Daniel here, who has been warned not long time ago.
At least the above quotes have 'personal preference/experience' disclaimers.
Daniel is beyond help.
His non standard use of english has me regularly confused.
Just recently he actually posted a few sentences that I could understand and surprisingly I had to agree with what he described.

But the vast majority of Daniel's posts are either completely unfathomable or just plain wrong where I can put some meaning to his gobbledegook.
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Old 5th April 2013, 07:52 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunek View Post
Possible my 220uf didn't work well with 100n.
For getting relatively normal capacitor values to work, here's a couple of possible solutions:
*A fairly orthodox approach, with capacitance value very close to Ostripper's specs, but with a more seamless method of bypassing, is to make C10, C11, C14, C15, all identical models of rather decent 100uF capacitor. This idea makes high efficiency 200uF per rail.
Or,
*If you want to set minimized capacitance value for that area, you could make C10, C11, C14, C15, all identical models of rather decent 47uF capacitor. The resulting value of approximately 100uF per rail is still relatively normal at small signal locale. However, smaller than this might begin to look weird, which could possibly indicate the problem you're looking for may be elsewhere.

P.S.
I did post a rather quick reacting power supply design up at post#265. Although faster might be helpful, power supply isn't an ideal location to attempt small signal support; so, it really can't substitute for a more idealistic small signal power circuit like either Hafler's diodes or regulators at amplifier front end. In my opinion, if we were actually looking for the right spot to fix, then we might want to remedy the omissions at Honey Badger's R32, R33, but I don't know if Hafler's diodes or regulators for amplifier front end, are compatible or not.
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Last edited by danielwritesbac; 5th April 2013 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 8th April 2013, 05:49 PM   #279
ncg2013 is offline ncg2013  United Kingdom
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Hi, just posted a group buy for some 15000uf 30mm capacitors for the universal psu, let me know if you are interested.
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Old 10th April 2013, 04:51 AM   #280
chunek is offline chunek  Singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
I did post a rather quick reacting power supply design up at post#265. Although faster might be helpful, power supply isn't an ideal location to attempt small signal support.
Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your recommendation! I wish I have the space to install this fast reacting power supply but it is limited.
Last few days, I did some high volume test with c11, c15 of 2.2uf caps, the 4 ohm speakers started to sound like not feed well when volume > 50%. I had 4 pcs of Nichicon muse 47uf caps on hand. After changing that, it came back to normal. Now enjoying the music and happy with this setup.

The only remaining parts for finetuning are the NFB cap + current mirror trans KSA1015.


Thanks,
James
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