TSSA - The Simplest Symmetrical Amplifier - Page 118 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th September 2012, 02:18 PM   #1171
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelm View Post
I suspect that the main cause for this extraordinary clarity is having the VAS as the o/p stage but if there is someone here who has heard both SSA & TSSA I would love to hear your comments about how they compare.
Seems like you're not that familiar with "the sound of topologies" and relationship between sound and simulation.

It will be hard to understand from reading words (especially comparing different designs). It must be experienced. Build the LC's BIGBT-HP. It has the most impressive simulated performance, and has some correlation with its sound. The output stage has its own character (can be used with different input stage) and the driving stage has that low distortion character that you can use with BJT output stage (usually not enough "drive" for driving laterals).

Also try to remove the input ccs of your amp and listen...

I think the critical difference between TSSA and SSA is the damping factor. But use of high trans-conductance device and paralleling device will change that very characteristic.

Simpler circuits tend to sound magical. I think it is similar reason (simplicity) why tube amps sound magical. Magical could also mean "sweeter than reality", so not always positive.

EDIT: I think Esperado has mentioned many things about relating "theory" to "real world". Imo, he is the best one to explain such things.

Last edited by Jay; 25th September 2012 at 02:25 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2012, 02:56 PM   #1172
mikelm is offline mikelm  England
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: England
Send a message via Yahoo to mikelm
Actually it is very easy to adjust OLG of sonny's TSSA so perhaps I will try that.

But I do intend to built my own TSSA stage by stage from simplest to most complex going from low gain / DF to quite high gain / DF so I'll find out what sounds like what.

My main question right now is this: Is the incredible transparency of TSSA maintained when a follower O/P stage is added to create SSA ?

I know that damping factor is not the full story because my Fetzilla & TSSA's have similar DF but the sound is very different.

Last edited by mikelm; 25th September 2012 at 03:02 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2012, 02:59 PM   #1173
sonnya is offline sonnya  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
sonnya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denmark
ahhh.... Jay show us you work or .... ..

Words and sim is fine.. But real world build, test, listening is what counts!!!!!!

I have build like 15 different designs over my 20 years experience in audio.

I have build several amps. both VFB, CFB. Some measure very well ... But does not sound good at all.

You cannot generalise if you have not build them all your self and found where the differenses is.

It can be in the detail...

And most of the sims done in this forum, is hard to realize in real world.....
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2012, 08:57 PM   #1174
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnya View Post
I have build like 15 different designs over my 20 years experience in audio.
The number will drastically drop once you start to design your own amps. Many hours are normally spent for a single amp. Building other people design is only a few one or two hours, until you run out of trusted designs.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2012, 09:09 PM   #1175
sonnya is offline sonnya  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
sonnya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Denmark
They are all my own designs Jay
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2012, 09:24 PM   #1176
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelm View Post
Actually it is very easy to adjust OLG of sonny's TSSA so perhaps I will try that.

But I do intend to built my own TSSA stage by stage from simplest to most complex going from low gain / DF to quite high gain / DF so I'll find out what sounds like what.
I think high DF through gain setting (OLG or CLG??) is critical only with mosfet output, especially laterals. I don't know with Sonny's TSSA, but it seems to me that 1K/100 is a bit too small. 2K2/100 looks normal visually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelm View Post
My main question right now is this: Is the incredible transparency of TSSA maintained when a follower O/P stage is added to create SSA ?
Honestly I'm not sure which one is SSA and which one is TSSA, as I don't use input cascode. I assume TSSA has caps in the FB (AC coupled).

I don't think that SSA can be made as transparent as TSSA unless we use cascaded VAS. With TSSA, add ccs, add regulated supply, add CURRENT! (Class-A) and it will become more and more transparent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelm View Post
I know that damping factor is not the full story because my Fetzilla & TSSA's have similar DF but the sound is very different.
Fetzilla cannot be made as transparent as TSSA. I found it is difficult to work with, or bias the JFET. And the asymmetry of Fetzilla will normally cause a very pronounced 2nd order that will reduce transparency.

Check the noise floor. I believe Sonny's TSSA stands out. Transparency can be seen from this performance.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th September 2012, 09:30 PM   #1177
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnya View Post
They are all my own designs Jay
I know (from the very small number).
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th September 2012, 07:34 AM   #1178
diyAudio Member
 
Lazy Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Mike's opinion from TSSA 1.6 thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelm View Post
Final comment before close of play . . .

Before I did the mod this amp sounded quite extraordinary but I noticed I relaxed more when I switched back to my DC linked fetzilla. Fetzilla gave less insight but was more refined & relaxed.

After the mod, and using my simple choke supplies, this TSSA 1.6 is the best amp I have ever heard by quite a bit margin. Now extremely insightful and quite refined.

I think there is still room for some more small refinements but already quite outstanding.

I now intend to do design a regulated supply - which I think this design will benefit from - and generally explore the whole field of 2 stage amps to the fullest extent possible.

Thanks Sonny - quite a masterpiece . . . You have opened up a new audio universe for me and I hope you enjoy the little suggestion I offer
Yes, very insightful music reproduction, now also because of your PSU. It would be nice at the end of your TSSA journey to show us final power supply schematic.

Very good job Mike.
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2012, 03:18 PM   #1179
diyAudio Member
 
maxlorenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: osorno , Chile
Since some years now, I use another clever idea that -ECdesigns- created for his low power circuits but that I adapted for Hi power circuits: it is called "charge-transfer supply". It could add more clarity to an already transparent amp...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

I use the cicuit until C2, then use my own regulator if needed.

I am sure you guys can optimize it for the SSA/TSSA. IMHO it is cheaper and smaller than a choke, and probably better. The drawback is that the first cap(bank) does not contribute to total capacitance, but I chose lower quality (cheaper) caps there. All my PS are "charge-transfered" now.

I hope you like it.
M.

PS: now I remember that I could see it work with my newly acquired scope...
  Reply With Quote
Old 29th September 2012, 04:48 PM   #1180
diyAudio Member
 
Lazy Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Hi maxlorenz

Thanky you, very nice circuit indeed. Only that it has to be adopted to higher currents for TSSA, offering serial mosfet impedance to control the charge of a first cap bank. Probably there's less spikes and HF interferences on second cap bank if compare to classic rectifier only.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
simplest amplifier possible with BJT's? rmgvs Solid State 123 10th July 2008 03:05 AM
Symmetrical Phono Amplifier seroxatmad Solid State 3 6th August 2007 04:00 PM
Simplest class B Amplifier PicancoNet Solid State 42 8th June 2005 02:55 PM
Symmetrical amplifier conundrum Kilentra Solid State 22 31st January 2003 05:06 AM
Symmetrical 400W amplifier Diogo Solid State 30 28th October 2002 11:00 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:31 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2