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Old 15th April 2012, 08:54 AM   #21
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terranigma View Post
I think Elvee is preferring to leave listening impressions to the builders. And he already stated that he had tiny ears.
As a rule, I never assess subjectively something I have produced, be it something I cook, something I write, or an amplifier I build and design.
It's too easy to fool oneself.
The only sure way you can really make progress in any field is to use objective metrics, and rely on subjective impressions of others.

In this context:
Quote:
Did you, subjectively, like the little toshiba pair better or the big toshiba pair? Oh, I meant the audio quality?
I couldn't detect any difference.
The 2SC5171 has a marginally high collector capacitance (16pF), but it doesn't seem to hurt performances measurably or audibly.
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Old 15th April 2012, 08:23 PM   #22
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I got my second board finished tonight and could finally try it with two speakers. I'm chuffed to bits! Sounds absolutely great, clear and detailed, very musical. Even my wife was impressed!
Here it is playing Simon and Garfunkels "Sounds of silence".

Click the image to open in full size.

The heatsink will be uprated on the lefthand BD140's shortly
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Old 17th April 2012, 02:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonedeafDIY View Post
I got my second board finished tonight and could finally try it with two speakers. I'm chuffed to bits! Sounds absolutely great, clear and detailed, very musical. Even my wife was impressed! Here it is playing Simon and Garfunkels "Sounds of silence". The heatsink will be uprated on the lefthand BD140's shortly
Soon there will be an outbreak of highly effective comb-fangle looking heatsinks all over diyaudio.com. Congrats, and THANK YOU for showing that right side heatsink. That heatsink method (the comb looking "L-channel" piece) is preferable just like L-channel with holes drilled and T-Channel with holes drilled. That is the rarely seen "hot top heatsink" type referring to air movement having to go around+through a shelf, and they are remarkably good. Mine has insulator pads (for safety, for insulation and to block parasitic capacitance) on modified L-channel (very similar to the photo).

I'm also grateful to see the demonstration of output devices mounted on thick aluminum channel available at the hardware store. A vast array of re-cycling can be done that way, since whatever metal object is pasted and bolted to that thick channel will form a heatsink, like a row of square channel antenna tubing, a row of CPU heatsinks and really almost anything thermally conductive with significant surface area can form the heatsink fins.

I'm collecting data that gets used for documentation.
I'm curious, what all transistors did you use?
Like BD140?? ST, Harris, Philips, or something else?

P.S.
Photobucket (and similar) photos are prone to turning up missing, so I attached your photo to the forum so that it won't go missing in the future.
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File Type: jpg tonedeafdiy_alex[1].jpg (159.3 KB, 474 views)

Last edited by danielwritesbac; 17th April 2012 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 17th April 2012, 04:31 PM   #24
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Thanks for the kind words.
The BD140's are ST, MJ15003 are ON Semi and the 2N3019 are ST. The rest were in stock from 20+ years ago.
Hope that is of use.

Just to show how tolerant Elvee's design is. After listening for a while I became aware that the right channel seemed harsh in the upper registers. I checked all the connections etc and then the board. I finally noticed that R10 was not soldered at one end! Sounds even better now.

Last edited by TonedeafDIY; 17th April 2012 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 17th April 2012, 04:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvee View Post
In this context:

I couldn't detect any difference.
The 2SC5171 has a marginally high collector capacitance (16pF), but it doesn't seem to hurt performances measurably or audibly.
I heard some people claiming that Japanese datasheet values specified within generous measurement margins. Maybe it is 8-12pF something else actually.
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Old 18th April 2012, 02:05 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terranigma View Post
I heard some people claiming that Japanese datasheet values specified within generous measurement margins. Maybe it is 8-12pF something else actually.
You're seeing driver versus vas balancing act--either both decent or one great.

The Toshiba 2sa1930/2sc5171 is the "both decent" example where both help each other slightly. Also seen with 2sa1358/2sc3421

The ST BD140/2n3019 is the "one great" example where the vas helps the driver. One of the prototypes used this combo and it measured well.

It is possible to alter this balancing act with layout as well, by reducing parasitic capacitance of the circuit boards.
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Old 18th April 2012, 07:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonedeafDIY View Post
Thanks for the kind words.
The BD140's are ST, MJ15003 are ON Semi and the 2N3019 are ST. The rest were in stock from 20+ years ago. Hope that is of use.
Yes, thank you. I used the example to fine tune the "mouser parts example schematic" in post 1.
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Old 19th April 2012, 07:33 AM   #28
Piersma is offline Piersma  Netherlands
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Default Fuses

hi TonedeafDIY,

Did you omit the fuses on your Circlophone PCB?
Nice build, wonderfull sound, Great !
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Old 20th April 2012, 07:35 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piersma View Post
hi TonedeafDIY,

Did you omit the fuses on your Circlophone PCB?
Nice build, wonderfull sound, Great !
They were omited. This was because I could not find any fuse holders to fit Alex's pcb and based on no one else fusing at that part of the circuit! It will be fused though.
Thanks for the kind words, I'm just a rank amateur!
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Old 20th April 2012, 09:16 AM   #30
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Hi TonedeafDIY,

Have you any dead silence issue with your builds? I see you have used separate small heatsink bars for drivers. Can you check RF interference difference, if you planing to attach drivers to main heatsink please?
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