New Doug Self pre-amp design...

[pinkmouse]

Dirk, I can guarantee just about every piece of music you have ever listened to has passed though a dozen or more 5532s. They are very, very common in even high end recording kit.

 

[nickds1]

Oh brother, what ever. If you want tone controls and a million chips in your preamp, then please, go for it. If you think this is real engineering, please, go right ahead with your belief. I don't care about this little project, I'm not ever going to build it, and I don't care about anyone's justifications for it. You misunderstand. I don't have any complaints because I don't give a hoot about this project. Can you hear me now? I don't care about it!

For someone who doesn't "give a hoot" about this project you certainly write a lot about it

 

[Juergen Knoop]

Just a heads-up...

This month's (UK) Elektor (April 2012, dropped on the mat this morning...)
Specifications
Crosstalk R to L –98 dB (1 kHz)
–74 dB (20 kHz)
L to R –102 dB (1 kHz)
–80 dB (20 kHz)

here too (German edition)...what do you make of the asymmetric crosstalk numbers? A grounding issue within the 'high quality' board developed by 'Elektor Labs' or a measurement flaw?

 

[a.wayne]

Oh brother, what ever. If you want tone controls and a million chips in your preamp, then please, go for it. If you think this is real engineering, please, go right ahead with your belief. I don't care about this little project, I'm not ever going to build it, and I don't care about anyone's justifications for it. You misunderstand. I don't have any complaints because I don't give a hoot about this project. Can you hear me now? I don't care about it!

Woaaa...........

 

[TheShaman]

Dirk, I can guarantee just about every piece of music you have ever listened to has passed though a dozen or more 5532s. They are very, very common in even high end recording kit.

Or, to quote Mr.Self from his active crossovers book:

With tiresome inevitability, the very popularity and excellent technical performance of the 5532 has led to it being savagely criticised by Subjectivists who have contrived to convince themselves that they can tell opamps apart by listening to music played through them. This always draws a hollow laugh from me, as there is probably no music on the planet that has not passed through a hundred or more 5532s on its way to the consumer.

 

[pinkmouse]

I stand corrected!

 

[abraxalito]

His laugh must be hollow because his logic is flawed - the 'Subjectivists' he creates are a figment of his own imagination

 

[analog_sa]

You misunderstand.

It is you who doesn't understand. D Self is like a god here. Only more senior.

Some day, when utter boredom and senility take over i'll build a design of his. With only audiophile approved parts. Maybe even write a subjective review. And then i'll test if lightning strikes.

 

[jan.didden]

I'm sure Douglas Self is aware of the alternatives (and "aware" is an understatement in this context).

Actually, in the article he makes a case why he uses the devices he uses. The article is very much to the point for anyone interested in 'opamp rolling', even if you're not interested in a preamp.
The rationale why he uses several of these devices in parallel rather than singles of the 'hi end' devices seems logical as well.

jan didden

 

[jan.didden]

Well, I didn't know cost was an important consideration. The price of the chips is a small fraction of the total cost of a project. The pretty box is usually far more expensive, as is the power supply.

Your hint wasn't very clear to me at all.

The NE5532 has twice the noise of say a LME49720. When you have so many chips, noise should be a primary consideration in my opinion.

... so with 4 parallel NE's you're at 6dB less noise than an LME at 1/4 the price. Seems a good deal to me.

jan

 

[jan.didden]

Oh please. You call this real engineering? in a hobbyist magazine? give me a break. This is a joke.

Which language version of the article did you read?

jan

 

[jan.didden]

here too (German edition)...what do you make of the asymmetric crosstalk numbers? A grounding issue within the 'high quality' board developed by 'Elektor Labs' or a measurement flaw?

I noted that too. I would guess a layout asymmetry, but am not sure.

jan

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

Jan, you know that in the FPS i use 2 x 4 NE5534A in parallel symmetric inverted. That way i get very low distortion, low noise and tremendoes current drive.
One advantage of the NE over the LME is that it has 1/4th of the current noise. That can be important when you use it at impedances over 1kOhm for example an MM input. There it beats the LME in noise but not used as an MC input where the LME is better but not optimum. There you need AD797, LME49990 or such. There is VOLTAGE and there is CURRENT noise.

 

[Juergen Knoop]

probably some sort of ground coupling, since capacitive coupling should be symmetrical

 

[sreten]

Gratuitous cynicism. People who listen to the design (after all that's the
majority DIYer reason for building a preamp, to use it for audio reproduction)
may not like the sound and substitute their own choice of opamp based solely
on the subjective appeal. Thinking they know better than Mr. Self not required,
merely a different end purpose.

Hi,

No its not. The design is of interest whatever op-amps are used, though
clearly the design utilises the characteristics of the op-amp devices used.

Resorting to a subjective argument (e.g. anything with 5532's in it won't
sound as good as it should) is gratuitous what ? ducking the real issues ?

rgds, sreten.

 

[Bonsai]

Originally Posted by dirkwright
You call this real engineering? in a hobbyist magazine? give me a break. This is a joke.


But you can't even design a simple op . . . Or follow instrctions on how to improve your effort And you try to hammer Doug Self?

When you are up against one of the acknowledged leading lights in the industry, you need to look and learn.

 

[Bonsai]

here too (German edition)...what do you make of the asymmetric crosstalk numbers? A grounding issue within the 'high quality' board developed by 'Elektor Labs' or a measurement flaw?

I also had asymmetric cross talk on my pre-amp and concluded it was layout. You have to take extraordinary care to keep cross talk high and symmetrical.

 

[abraxalito]

No its not.

Yes it is. ( This could go on ad infinitum )

The design is of interest whatever op-amps are used, though
clearly the design utilises the characteristics of the op-amp devices used.

Agreed - there is a lot to be learned from Mr Self's designs. Tilting at windmills perchance?

Resorting to a subjective argument (e.g. anything with 5532's in it won't
sound as good as it should) is gratuitous what ?

That argument is not gratuitous in my book. It looks like you missed my point, never mind. I said it was the cynicism (yours) which was gratuitous, not the argument. I also pointed out what cynicism you had - 'thinking they know better than D. Self'.

ducking the real issues ?

Yep it certainly looks that way.

 

[Conrad Hoffman]

You want an argument? But you haven't paid!

Just FYI, if you go to the Elektor web site and join up, you get 10 free credits, which is exactly enough to download part 1 of the article. The pcb layout is a free download.

Unfortunately what I really want to see is the RIAA section, and that's not till a future installment.

IMO, anybody that doesn't learn something from a Self article isn't paying attention.

 

[Bonsai]