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Old 1st January 2012, 08:08 AM   #101
ontoaba is offline ontoaba  Indonesia
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Did you ever planned or make that crossconnection transistors to not switched off and work inclass AB instead,
I've tried it, no result.

May be with miralin Re implementation, I am going to use cross management in it, so bias rises to make output transistor not switched off. But I am too busy now, finishing my new mini mixers.
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Old 1st January 2012, 02:17 PM   #102
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Hi Edmond&friends
Congratulations and Happy New Year!
Hope in 2012 we’ll have pleasure to talk about basic principles, nonlinearities, etc.
Cheers Mir
Hi Mir and all other DIYers,

A happy and prosperous New Year.

Edmond.
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goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk)
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Old 1st January 2012, 03:13 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontoaba View Post

Did you ever planned or make that crossconnection transistors to not switched off and work inclass AB instead, I just have this idea and not yet tried it.

I've tried it, no result.

May be with miralin Re implementation, I am going to use cross management in it, so bias rises to make output transistor not switched off. But I am too busy now, finishing my new mini mixers.
Hi ontoaba,

Class-I as well as AB2 comprise two NFB loops:
1. A common-mode loop, that controls the bias of the OPS
2. A differential loop, that minimize the distortion of the OPS.

Regarding the 1st loop, it's essential that this loop is highly nonlinear, I repeat highly nonlinear. That means that one or more bias controls trannies will be and have to be switched off during large output currents.

Anny attempt to linearize the bias FB loop clearly demonstrates nothing but a lack of proper understanding of the basic principles of these circuits.

Regarding the 2nd loop, indeed this one needs to be linear. In the AB2 circuit, this has already been achieved by using a 'reversed' CFB stage, which is inherently quite linear. I call it 'reversed' as the amp output is fed to the input of this CFB stage and and the amp input is connected to the feedback point of this stage.

I'm still busy with my 'explanation', as it's getting quite long. Perhaps I don't put it here, rather on my own website, because 'over there' I can add or correct things at any time. Till then, please no more so called 'improvements', but feel free to put any question.

Success with your mini mixers.

Cheers,
E.
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Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht, zal meer dan lijf en
goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk)

Last edited by Edmond Stuart; 1st January 2012 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 1st January 2012, 11:53 PM   #104
ontoaba is offline ontoaba  Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmond Stuart View Post
Hi ontoaba,

Class-I as well as AB2 comprise two NFB loops:
1. A common-mode loop, that controls the bias of the OPS
2. A differential loop, that minimize the distortion of the OPS.

Regarding the 1st loop,.... I repeat highly nonlinear..

......
Ok, no more improvement, it is my OPS that need to be improved, because your AB2 works much better with my XM, around 1mV spikes .

Thanks , my mini mixer now in build progress (PCB drilling).
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File Type: png AB2 XM.PNG (34.2 KB, 238 views)
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Old 2nd January 2012, 09:49 AM   #105
ontoaba is offline ontoaba  Indonesia
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About reversed CFB, I am using it cut cascoded (also work like this with AB2) and with resistor replacing current source in most my EC, its stable negative feedback with shortest feedback path.
Finished with drilling, I trying to place 2nd storage XM, and it is also work great.

Ok, Kendall class-I is just same with nakayama's circuit or kendall is nakayama?. I see pioneer M91 amplifier also using non switching IC, but don't know what it is.
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File Type: png AB2 no-XM.PNG (46.5 KB, 228 views)

Last edited by ontoaba; 2nd January 2012 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 09:56 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by ontoaba View Post
Ok, no more improvement, it is my OPS that need to be improved, because your AB2 works much better with my XM, around 1mV spikes .

Thanks , my mini mixer now in build progress (PCB drilling).
I don't get spikes at all, only a tiny wobble that resembles the distortion caused by gm doubling. Moreover, if I replace the switching sense trannies by something that doesn't switch at all (for example a multiplier) I get almost exactly the same results.
edit: So the switching sense trannies have nothing to do with your spikes.

If you get spikes then something is fundamentally wrong, either your schematic or your simulator.

Cheers,
E.
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Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht, zal meer dan lijf en
goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk)

Last edited by Edmond Stuart; 2nd January 2012 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 10:50 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Edmond Stuart View Post
Good research, Walter !
So the late Baxandall (RIP) is not the father of that baby.
Bottom line: everything you invent has already been invented.
Oh well.

Cheers,
E.
Hi Edmond

The granting of this new patent is like a joke, the author has even patented outputstage inclusive miller compensation which has and is widely used. As TMC was patented before and is public knowledge this patent should never have been granted.

Watch out guys, I might just get the nerve to go patent miller compensation or even better Negative feedback again.

Ive been testing TMC with the LM chips for a cheap new range of automotive amps using TMC the last few days and so far results look good. I about to start preparations to commercialize and I wish Mr Zhenwu Wang all the best of luck if he decides to sue to me.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 11:00 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ontoaba View Post
About reversed CFB, I am using it cut cascoded (also work like this with AB2) and with resistor replacing current source in most my EC, its stable negative feedback with shortest feedback path.
Finished with drilling, I trying to place 2nd storage XM, and it is also work great.

Ok, Kendall class-I is just same with nakayama's circuit or kendall is nakayama?. I see pioneer M91 amplifier also using non switching IC, but don't know what it is.
I might be able to help here, Pioneer do have a patent but they also used the circuit in a discreet implementation in a amp or two. Ill try post the circuit if Edmond and DAdod dont mind as its offtopic.
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Old 2nd January 2012, 11:07 AM   #109
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Default TMC patent

Hi homemodder,

This patent is a joke^2. Those copy/past morons also copied a well known error from Randy Slone's amp (see fig.11): The ill defined VAS current.

Cheers,
E.
Attached Images
File Type: png WrongSloneAmp.png (26.2 KB, 226 views)
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Een volk dat voor tirannen zwicht, zal meer dan lijf en
goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk)
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Old 2nd January 2012, 11:11 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by homemodder View Post
I might be able to help here, Pioneer do have a patent but they also used the circuit in a discreet implementation in a amp or two. Ill try post the circuit if Edmond and DAdod dont mind as its offtopic.
I don't mind (as we are already off topic), so please proceed.

Cheers,
E.
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goed verliezen dan dooft het licht…(H.M. van Randwijk)
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