Questions about Transistors with high beta (hfe) up to 3000 without Darl.-Topology

Single transistors (i. e. without internal darlington topology) with very high hfe up to 3000 are not often to find.
Here some examples:

NEC 2SC3616
http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/transdata/2sc3616.pdf
NEC 2SC3622 - 2SC3624 (1000-3200)
http://www.classiccmp.org/rtellason/transdata/2sc3624.pdf
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/e/0l76ts8ziiugzq6sr4s4d8q8si3y.pdf
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/e/0z34289ez8cosq04uk8kuyykgefy.pdf
Sanken 2SC3852
http://www.sanken-ele.co.jp/en/prod/semicon/pdf/2sc3852e.pdf
Sanyo 2SC3807
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/sanyo/ds_pdf_e/2SC3807.pdf
Sanyo 2SC3689 (800-3200) / 2SA1434 (500-1200)
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/sanyo/ds_pdf_e/2SC3689.pdf
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/sanyo/ds_pdf_e/2SA1434.pdf
Sanyo 2SC3068/2SA1435
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/sanyo/ds_pdf_e/2SC3068.pdf
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/sanyo/ds_pdf_e/2SA1435.pdf
Sanyo 2SC3576
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/sanyo/ds_pdf_e/2SC3576.pdf

Which benefits are there in opposite to a darlington topology?

Are there particularly suited for certainly amplifier topologies?

Which certain applications are there, where normal darlingtons are not a good choice?

Thank you for comments.
 
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Interesting. These are like the "super-beta" devices found in some old opamps.
They were obviously specced for switching as the current does not go below 10mA in the gain graphs. You get high beta by having a very thin base, which gives low Vceo
The ft is good compared with a darlington and saturation voltage is much lower
 
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Joined 2006
Ill add some to that list in a day or two.

High voltage ones are available, I use them in inputstages and in beta enhanced vas sometimes.
Great for input LTP s as it improves DC offset problems.
MPSA18 is probably the most used one, excellent for LTP.
Higher current examples are excellent for use as VBE multipliers.
 
I wouldn't call the MPSA18 a super-beta, with Hfe > 500, not that much better than the old BC549C.
With Ft of about 100MHz, gain is going to start falling at around 100KHz
At a first look you are don't right. Now I do understand the reason, why this type is often to find by LTP's in old american power amps.
MPSA18 MOT: hfe 500-1500 (DC, Ic = 10mA)
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/motorola/MPSA18.pdf
BC546C-BC550C NXP hfe 420-800 (DC, Ic = 2mA)
http://www.nxp.com/documents/data_sheet/BC549_550.pdf
http://www.radiotechnika.hu/images/BC546_50.pdf

go also to
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/6498-mpsa-18-vs-bc546bs.html

But to a closer view to the exactly curvatures you are right with your view in your previous post because it is not possible, to compare the mentioned current gain values without the conditions of measurement. Sometimes the collector currents are different, sometimes the Uce voltage. Additional this is still a frequency dependend value (compare DC-HFe and AC-HFe).

Unfortunately all the other high Hfe types from Motorola's MPS-series are darlingtons:
mps6724-6725
mpsa12-14-13-25-26-27-28-29-62-63-64-65-66-75-76-77

mpsd04-54 (only1000)
mpsu45-95
mpsw13-14-45-45a-63-64

BTW - The MPSA18 is sourced from Process 07 (according an old Fairchild Databook)
other types from this process are follow:
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/2N/2N5088.pdf
http://sm0vpo.com/_pdf/BC/BC847S.pdf
 
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more high current gain types:

2N5963 Fairchild (hfe 1200-3000, no genuine datasheet and no successor in S. M. T. resp. SOT23 outline)
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/7/0yt3xpgrf42w7jtktzekerhelicy.pdf

2N5962/MMBT5962 Fairchild (hfe 600-2000)
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/MM/MMBT5962.html
http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/MM/MMBT5962.pdf

MPSA18 (Onsemi, hfe 500-1500)
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/MPSA18-D.PDF

2N5088-2N5089 Onsemi hfe 450-1800
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/2N5088-D.PDF
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/MMBT5088LT1-D.PDF
MMBT6428LT1G + MMBT6429LT1G (Onsemi hfe 500-1250)
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/MMBT6428LT1-D.PDF

2N5828A General Electric, Semiconductor Data Book 1971 hfe 200-800)
2N5828 datasheet and application note, data sheet, circuit, pdf, cross reference, pinout | Datasheet Archive

2N5526 TI (no datssheet)

2N5249 (GES = General Electric Semiconductor) hfe 40-800
2N5249 pdf, 2N5249 description, 2N5249 datasheets, 2N5249 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

2N5223 (Fairchild hfe 50-1600)
2N5223 pdf, 2N5223 description, 2N5223 datasheets, 2N5223 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

MMBT5223 (hfe 50-800), MMBT2484 (hfe 250-800)
MMBT5223 datasheet and application note, data sheet, circuit, pdf, cross reference, pinout | Datasheet Archive

2SC2545, 2SC2546 Hitachi (hfe 250-1200)
http://jm.plantefeve.pagesperso-orange.fr/2SC2547.pdf

ZXTN07045EFF (Zetex hfe 500-1500)
http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ZXTN07045EFF.pdf
ZXTN07012EFF (Zetex hfe 500-1500)
ZXTN07012EFFTA pdf, ZXTN07012EFFTA description, ZXTN07012EFFTA datasheets, ZXTN07012EFFTA view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::
ZXTP25012EFH (Zetex hfe 500-1500)
http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ZXTP25012EFH.pdf

Dual Transistors:
ZXTC2061E6 (Zetex Dual Transistor, hfe 500-1500)
http://www.diodes.com/datasheets/ZXTC2061E6.pdf
MBT6429DW1T1G (Onsemi Dual hfe 500-1250)
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/MBT6429DW1T1-D.PDF
UMZ1NT1G (Onsemi Complementary Dual Transistor hfe 200-400)
http://www.onsemi.com/pub_link/Collateral/UMZ1NT1-D.PDF
 
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Joined 2006
I wouldn't call the MPSA18 a super-beta, with Hfe > 500, not that much better than the old BC549C.
With Ft of about 100MHz, gain is going to start falling at around 100KHz

A closer look at the datasheets will give you a better answer, compare apples with apples. The bc549C has a hfe of 500 at 2ma while the mpsa18 has more than double that (1100) at the same IC. The hfe of 500 you state for the mpsa18 is at 10 ua, at this current level the bc549c only manages 150. Also the ft of mpsa18 is around 400Mhz at 10 ma and still rising while the bc549c manages max ft of 300Mhz at 10Mhz whereafter it starts declining. The mpsa18 is far superior to the bc549c series in all respects, including lower noise and lower Cob too.
 
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More high gain examples from Japan:
2SD2159 (Rohm hfe 390-2700)
2SB1461/2SB1425 (Rohm hfe 270-1200)
2SD2172 (Rohm hfe 560-2700)
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/90/90250_1.pdf
No datasheet online

2SD2356-2SD2226K (Rohm hfe 560-2700)
2SD2227S (Rohm hfe 1200-2700)
Datasheet from March 1997:
2SD2171S pdf, 2SD2171S description, 2SD2171S datasheets, 2SD2171S view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

2SC3615/2SC3616/2SC3622/2SC3622A (NEC hfe 800-3200)
2SC3615 pdf, 2SC3615 description, 2SC3615 datasheets, 2SC3615 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::
2SC3616 pdf, 2SC3616 description, 2SC3616 datasheets, 2SC3616 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/e/0z34289ez8cosq04uk8kuyykgefy.pdf

2SA1409, 2SA1410 (NEC no data)
 
Any improvement in some caracteristics will inevitably reduce the abilities
of the device in some other areas.

The Hitachi/Renesas 2SA872/2SC1775 complementary pair
has respectable gain of up to 1200 , certainly less than the super beta
devices debated above , but more certainly they have high VCE and FT ,
very low noise and are somewhat a very wise compromise in matter of global caracteristics.
 
Any improvement in some caracteristics will inevitably reduce the abilities
of the device in some other areas.

The Hitachi/Renesas 2SA872/2SC1775 complementary pair
has respectable gain of up to 1200 , certainly less than the super beta
devices debated above , but more certainly they have high VCE and FT ,
very low noise and are somewhat a very wise compromise in matter of global caracteristics.
Vce of 2SC1775 is 90V and from the 2SC1775A 120V
At first look large Vce values are an advantage for LTP differential amplifiers.

Most designers use the full value of Vce in their LTP stages. But there is now the disadvantage, that only small idle currents are possible (much lower than the ideal value between 3mA and 10mA) or OTOH there are burned PCB aeras after a short time of use due too excessive power dissipation in the LTP pair. The NAD 3240PE and the 306 is such an example.

Thus a high value of Vce isn't realy an advantage.

By several amps I introduce resistors in the collector line, so that in real life the VCE value is at maximum only 20V without any disadvantage in respect to the other parameters. As consequence I can enhance the idle current to higher values without trouble (I prefer 3mA - 5 mA instead the often used value between 0,1mA and 1mA).
 
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Disabled Account
Joined 2006
Any improvement in some caracteristics will inevitably reduce the abilities
of the device in some other areas.

The Hitachi/Renesas 2SA872/2SC1775 complementary pair
has respectable gain of up to 1200 , certainly less than the super beta
devices debated above , but more certainly they have high VCE and FT ,
very low noise and are somewhat a very wise compromise in matter of global caracteristics.

In practice youll never find such high gain with 2SA872/2SC1775, Ive used thousands of these pairs and never once found any showing an hfe higher than 350 while its not very hard to find mpsa18 with hfe approaching
700 at around 3 ma mark which is a value often used in LTPs. As regards Ft many super beta s are superior to 2SA872/2SC1775, vce is the only weak spot.
 
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Joined 2006
How do these devices compare with regard to Early Voltage to lesser DC gain devices of similar Vceo?

They are worse off but the advantage is when you use them in cascode circuits. This way you create a super BJT, very high gain, high early voltage. If used within their vce limits they can actually be a contribute for those that like to manipulate THD spectrum depending on the position they are used. A lower early voltage will in all cases contribute to higher THD but this is in respect of 2nd harmonics which some delibertly want to create.
 
I threw a quad of MPS18 at the front end of an MC2100.

Matched to each other (on a $2 harbor freight meter) in
the 651-655 zone. Another "identical" $2 meter thought
the same set were all about 630...

The worst part was the HFE socket was fake. Just some
guide holes. Had to push the wires against pads on the
meter PCB, very hard to get all three in contact at once.

The PNPs I chose were all 315 on the dot, both meters.
 
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By several amps I introduce resistors in the collector line, so that in real life the VCE value is at maximum only 20V without any disadvantage in respect to the other parameters. As consequence I can enhance the idle current to higher values without trouble (I prefer 3mA - 5 mA instead the often used value between 0,1mA and 1mA).
Which is the advantage of very high hfe, 5mA would have very high Ib for a hfe=200 device
 
Add to the list: 2SC1273. 30V, 2A, hFE > 500, TO-220FP package.

Although it does saturate very easily, it switches very slowly, on par with TIP31 and other general purpose power transistors, regardless of base drive current. I expect the doping profile or charge distribution or junction capacitance or something on these devices is such that they always slow way down as they begin to saturate.

Speaking of base drive current, don't be fooled by the high gain, which is a DC parameter. The AC impedance will be much lower, because the base has considerable capacitance and charge storage.

Tim
 
Add to the list: 2SC1273. 30V, 2A, hFE > 500, TO-220FP package.

Although it does saturate very easily, it switches very slowly, on par with TIP31 and other general purpose power transistors, regardless of base drive current. I expect the doping profile or charge distribution or junction capacitance or something on these devices is such that they always slow way down as they begin to saturate.

Speaking of base drive current, don't be fooled by the high gain, which is a DC parameter. The AC impedance will be much lower, because the base has considerable capacitance and charge storage.

Tim
This is the outline of 2SC1273, from which I have heard:
2SC1273, Tube 2SC1273; Röhre 2SC1273 ID40038, Transistor
Can you upload genuine NEC datasheet (also from 2SC1271 and 2SC1272) ??
I haven't success to find this online.
 
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Oh, my mistake it's 2SD1273!

Short form spec from datasheetarchive:
V(BR)CEO (V)=80
V(BR)CBO (V)=100
I(C) Abs.(A) Collector Current=3
Absolute Max. Power Diss. (W)=2
I(CBO) Max. (A)=100u
@V(CBO) (V) (Test Condition)=80
V(CE)sat Max.(V)=1
@I(C) (A) (Test Condition)=2
@I(B) (A) (Test Condition)=50m
h(FE) Min. Static Current Gain=1.2k
h(FE) Max. Current gain.=2.5k
@I(C) (A) (Test Condition)=500m
@V(CE) (V) (Test Condition)=4
f(T) Min. (Hz) Transition Freq=50M
@I(C) (A) (Test Condition)=200m
@V(CE) (V) (Test Condition)=12
Package=SOT-186

Surprisingly Vce(sat) is tested at only 40 hFE, however it will gladly do the same with much less base current. It starts to look like a FET with Vgs(th) = Vbe, in that you hardly need any current to drive it -- enough that, whatever peak capacity a gate drive source would supply (even logic level), it's more than enough to turn this thing on.

Tim