"The Wire AMP" Class A/AB Power Amplifier based on the LME49830 with Lateral Mosfets - Page 193 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 15th October 2012, 03:02 PM   #1921
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
qusp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
turn it up you have more chance of overheating a part or pad and lifting it, what is needed in THIS amp and many of opc's other designs since they all share this trait of solid ground planes, is thermal MASS, not just heat. if you have been doing that for years i'm sorry youve been using incorrect technique all those years. I also have some years, well 5 years of SMD soldering, but this is a pretty basic concept so the years arent needed. its just science at work.

and yes I have an adjustable iron, using fine tips for a board like this is obviously doable (only some positions a really fine tip simply wont work; no matter how much heat, while there is nothing on the board that actually needs a fine tip, the parts simply arent that small), but its not correct technique and is more risky. its been covered in here before as well in opc's recommendations for this amp. It last came up when someone was struggling with a similar issue.

its counter-intuitive and many people think they need a fine tip for SMD, but its very rarely the case and causes people to make it harder for themselves than necessary

Last edited by qusp; 15th October 2012 at 03:21 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th October 2012, 03:22 PM   #1922
rsavas is offline rsavas  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ontario
I have been at it, SMT wise, for lets say 30 years now and have never lifted a trace or smoked a component, yet. Might have delaminated a SMT passive part here and there. I do not think that my techinques are faulty or it would have resulted in failures, which is not the case. Can't say that for PHT parts which can be more difficult to remove without pulling out a PTHole barrell. Yes "qusp" your points are valid, I have more than one soldering iron, all with different tips and power rating, as having only one iron can limit your abilities.
Quote:
"pretty basic concept so the years arent needed"

You're correct it ain't years, it is experiences, varieties and training which counts

Good luck with your soldering experiences!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2012, 04:04 AM   #1923
HiroPro is offline HiroPro  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
completely disagree with underlined part, in fact i'd almost bet money that having too little mass in his tip is the main problem here. this amp has very solid ground planes and they suck the heat out of small tips, you wont get anywhere. a 3mm chisel tip is perfect for doing everything on this board

if I was nearby I would help also, but that sure isnt the case.
I find the best are the short smaller chisel tips.

On my Hakko I use a .4 mm short chisel 90% of the time. I purchased a .2 mm radius long for SMT work but found it totally useless due to exactly your point here.

Key is to use a chisel due to extra mass and not to use a radius long but a short chisel.

I agree a 100% the long radius .2mm tips like this Hakko 900M-T-LB/P in my hand are TOTALLY USELESS due to thermal recovery rates. I just pulled this thing outta a bench drawer and last time I used it was perhaps for 20 minutes about a decade ago when I first got started in DIY. Totally useless tip that would drive you crazy if you didn't know better.

Short chisel is the only way to fly!

.8 .4 and .2 short chisel is all you'll ever need.

Conical/radius long tips are again USELESS

One thing to keep in mind is if you change tips the station needs to be recalibrated as the temp will change at the tip.

Years ago I scored a Hakko 191 INCREDIBLY fast and ACCURATE thermistor based station themometer/calibrator for $60 bucks at Quale Electronics. What a deal as I think it's worth a good $400 bucks. It's a nice reasuring thing to have as I can be 100% sure of the solder temp and I don't trust Fing Wong Wing in the factory mainland right...

PS using long radius .2mm is sorta like A4 sized file folders... you can tell an amateur in office Depot because they don't go legal on their cab/folders/bakers box.... LOL TOTAL AMATEUR

Last edited by HiroPro; 16th October 2012 at 04:29 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2012, 04:43 AM   #1924
HiroPro is offline HiroPro  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsavas View Post
I have been at it, SMT wise, for lets say 30 years now and have never lifted a trace or smoked a component, yet. Might have delaminated a SMT passive part here and there. I do not think that my techinques are faulty or it would have resulted in failures, which is not the case. Can't say that for PHT parts which can be more difficult to remove without pulling out a PTHole barrell. Yes "qusp" your points are valid, I have more than one soldering iron, all with different tips and power rating, as having only one iron can limit your abilities.

You're correct it ain't years, it is experiences, varieties and training which counts

Good luck with your soldering experiences!!
Hey man I've seen senior engineers with IEEE commendations even man... take an iron and due **** to a PCB where my JAW ALMOST FELL ON THE FLOOR...

NO KIDDING



So I don't buy that senior EE bulllshit means you know how to solder well. Heck if the truth be known the best solderers are 14 year old Chinese girls that can lay a joint better than ANY SENIOR "FAMOUS" EE.

On protoboard work it's NP if a joint is dry etc as you just debug and give the passive a solder hit right... I'd like to see the failure rates in a production environment with you older farts bad habit soldering skills. It would be brutally bad IMHO from what I've seen of most senior EEs. Eyesight is also a big deal... and for the first time being in my late 30s my close vision has started to go on me! As a nearsighted nerd I used to cherish my close vision as without correction my close vision was like a 10X magnifier! hehehh

Now for only about two or so years I actually have to hold a part father away to see it well!

SUCKS BIG TIME

It's my first sign of aging that has really hit home...

ohh the humility !

LOL


Last edited by HiroPro; 16th October 2012 at 04:56 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2012, 11:39 AM   #1925
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North West, UK
Blog Entries: 7
Good to see a healthy conversation on the go...

Got to admit that this project has been a little daunting, but as I've got hold of the various pieces the overall has become much clearer. Plus my understand of different aspects of the amp has increased and can now read back through the thread and follow what is being discused.

I now have a deffinate plan of action regarding the implementation and layout of the amp, but it'll be next year before it will be completed...

Hope we get to see some of these completed this side of Christmas...

Paul
__________________
Listening with Gusto!
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2012, 11:46 AM   #1926
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
I have no interest in your robust discussion about who's soldering tip is bigger ....


I now have most of the components except FETs and case/heatsinks. FETs are on there way in due course (Owen has them because I told him to keep them and ship them later when the NTD1 GB rolls around, I am in no hurry) So I will start building the boards up in a week or two, after finishing another project or two. I'm hopeful I'll have something to test over Christmas holidays if work let me have some time off!
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2012, 11:50 AM   #1927
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
qusp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
I dont believe thats a matter of discourse, mine is the biggest =)

Last edited by qusp; 16th October 2012 at 11:53 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2012, 01:04 PM   #1928
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North West, UK
Blog Entries: 7
Lol...

Currently I have a suitable heatsink & enough wiring for a test setup, but lack a few key components for the lower V test power supplies... I forgot to get the TIM kits for the regs on the two wire psu's

After that its just purchasing a case and drilling a few holes...

Think I'll invest in a copy of Linear Audio #3 as it has an article about Class A enclosures as well as bits about a headphone amp & various IV stages... very supprised these mags aren't available as a .pdf download!?
__________________
Listening with Gusto!
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th October 2012, 02:36 PM   #1929
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
qusp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane, Australia
re LA pdf, yeah I expressed my own surprise, frustration and encouragement to rectify that unfortunate fact. shipping isnt exactly fast either. great content though! this one's a doozy with some real giants of our hobby/industry included. i'm very interested in the article by Scott Wurcer, it really is quite amazing the enthusiasm, generosity and access we are seeing here currently from these newly 'retired' legends of the audio game; for instance Walt Jung has been here a bit lately too

Last edited by qusp; 16th October 2012 at 02:42 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th October 2012, 02:58 PM   #1930
rsavas is offline rsavas  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ontario
Quote:
So I don't buy that senior EE bulllshit means you know how to solder well. Heck if the truth be known the best solderers are 14 year old Chinese girls that can lay a joint better than ANY SENIOR "FAMOUS" EE.
I never stated that I was an EE, nor am I one. You are correct, many EE's are not very mechanically inclinded. When I worked at Motorola, they never let the production tech's do any re-work, they left it to the the ladies on the production line to do the repairs, because too many orders were damaged if the tech's did re-work. I am here, just trying to help a fellow DIY member solder up his board, by sharing some experiences, provide some help, that is all. I hope that the member is now encouraged to complete his project and post his results.

Good Luck
Rick
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Marriage from "ZEN" - and ordinary class AB topology about HCA - why not realized ?? tiefbassuebertr Pass Labs 2 4th January 2014 04:52 PM
X-Amp (LME49830 + Exicon Lateral Mosfets) danfo098 Chip Amps 28 14th October 2013 04:05 AM
"CA-10", new Single Ended Power amp Device based on Aleph or ZEN ? tiefbassuebertr Pass Labs 1 29th September 2010 06:55 PM
Compound Lateral FET for higher power Class AB amp. Mooly Solid State 17 22nd August 2010 02:13 PM
Improvments to "Tube Headphone Amplifier/Preamp with Relay-Based Input and Power Swi" kipman725 Headphone Systems 4 17th August 2009 06:12 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:13 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2