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Old 18th August 2011, 11:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
All amplifiers sound the same ... Mr Hirsch .. god bless him ..........
Do they sound the same in a double blind test ? If so Mr. Hirsch might have a point ...
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Old 18th August 2011, 11:16 PM   #12
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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I have been privy to a few DBT, all amplifiers sound different IMO, topologies sound different, you can tell, setup is also very important especially speakers and load.

Personally i have never had a situation where all the amplifiers sound the same or where one could not tell the difference.
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Old 18th August 2011, 11:19 PM   #13
SY is offline SY  United States
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Well, write it up in detail and publish it somewhere so that your tests can be analyzed and replicated. Actually, one of the tests I cited DID show amp differences.
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Old 18th August 2011, 11:21 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by VictoriaGuy View Post
This test from Stereo Review is pretty well-known:

http://webpages.charter.net/fryguy/Amp_Sound.pdf

I checked it out, it's quite informative.
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Old 18th August 2011, 11:32 PM   #15
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Originally Posted by SY View Post
Well, write it up in detail and publish it somewhere so that your tests can be analyzed and replicated. Actually, one of the tests I cited DID show amp differences.
Yes i saw that and I'm no longer involved in the industry so not exposed to or able to perform such test anymore, well apart from my own personal satisfaction,A/B/ testing ..

Amplifiers apart we have been doing a bit with the digital stuff 16/44 vs 192/24 , ripping storing etc. but nothing scientific enuff to satisfy your buds one interesting observation arose when testing one Sunday, between the 9 listeners present not DBT , but each had to leave the room and we were never privy to the format being played which was being controlled wireless via Laptop.

The differences are astounding to me and practically everyone present could hear a difference. I was one of 3 (9)who could actually tell the format being played and while all heard a difference when switching , half preferred the noisy 16/44 format...


Audio ... it never ends .........

Last edited by a.wayne; 18th August 2011 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 19th August 2011, 03:14 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
I have been privy to a few DBT,
The Stereo Review test wasn't double blind. I'm not aware of any true double-blind audio tests, though there may be some.
As I understand it, a double-blind test is one where the 'researchers' and subjects both are unaware of which treatment is being applied. In most audio tests I've read, the 'researcher' controls the switching, so the test is not DBT.

And, if the listeners are told when the switching occurs, the test becomes even less valid.
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Old 19th August 2011, 01:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by VictoriaGuy View Post
The Stereo Review test wasn't double blind. I'm not aware of any true double-blind audio tests, though there may be some.
As I understand it, a double-blind test is one where the 'researchers' and subjects both are unaware of which treatment is being applied. In most audio tests I've read, the 'researcher' controls the switching, so the test is not DBT.

And, if the listeners are told when the switching occurs, the test becomes even less valid.
None of that is correct, I'm sorry.

Double blind means that neither the experimenter nor the listener are aware of the identity of the unknown, but the variable being tested may well be known. For example, if I am comparing amblifier A to amplifier B in ABX format, I can certainly know what A and B are, but neither I nor the experimenter know what X is- but we do know that X is either A or B.

Generally, the listener has switching control in that sort of format. In other test formats (e.g., sorting), the listener also has control of which items are being auditioned.

In several decades of sensory testing experience, I have never run across the concept of reduced test validity with knowledge of when switching takes place. Do you have a cite for that?
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Old 19th August 2011, 02:39 PM   #18
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And, if the listeners are told when the switching occurs, the test becomes even less valid.
This isn't entirely true either since when the "switch" occurs one doesn't know whether the DUT is changed or if it remains the same. In other words, the switching should be as random as possible.

John
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Old 19th August 2011, 03:35 PM   #19
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Personally i have never had a situation where all the amplifiers sound the same or where one could not tell the difference.
Then publisch the test and its results, so others can verify it.
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Old 19th August 2011, 03:43 PM   #20
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I made that suggestion and got a non-answer. Res ipsa and all that.
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