Again: Everything is overpriced in HiEnd, no news there...
Taking into perspective the HiEnd market and it's prices, I don't consider it overpriced. In absolute numbers, of course it is.
Speaking of perspective, last time I checked the title of the thread was best sounding (commercial I suppose) amplifiers - not bargains, not great buys, not best value-for-money components.
Trust me, I'm the first one who would rather the best amps I have heard were not ultra-expensive like LAMM and Soulution but, instead, some NAD bargain amp or some secret vintage amp you can grab for $500 off eBay. But they're not.
In any case, "best sounding" is clearly a subjective matter.
I hope science manages to turn it into an objective, measurable quantity at some point.
Or at least find a way to allow us to share our experiences with others so when such a topic arises, we'll do so with each other and reach a consensus.
Until then, there is no wrong nor right entry in each one's personal list of "best sounding amps".
Taking into perspective the HiEnd market and it's prices, I don't consider it overpriced. In absolute numbers, of course it is.
Speaking of perspective, last time I checked the title of the thread was best sounding (commercial I suppose) amplifiers - not bargains, not great buys, not best value-for-money components.
Trust me, I'm the first one who would rather the best amps I have heard were not ultra-expensive like LAMM and Soulution but, instead, some NAD bargain amp or some secret vintage amp you can grab for $500 off eBay. But they're not.
In any case, "best sounding" is clearly a subjective matter.
I hope science manages to turn it into an objective, measurable quantity at some point.
Or at least find a way to allow us to share our experiences with others so when such a topic arises, we'll do so with each other and reach a consensus.
Until then, there is no wrong nor right entry in each one's personal list of "best sounding amps".
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@homemodder,
No, not blameless.
The amp has 2 separate stage, VAS and CAS, both or one with timing error canceling applied because gain rising at 100khz. Not difficult to get that spec.
See my N2 much faster (transfer function plot is in previous post): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ever...g-discovers-high-end-audio-6.html#post2865836
I see this kind also in halcro (candy's EC) but looks like Candy make it limited for its stability when GNFB applied and he cleverly hide it from specs measurements and his patents.
No, not blameless.
The amp has 2 separate stage, VAS and CAS, both or one with timing error canceling applied because gain rising at 100khz. Not difficult to get that spec.
See my N2 much faster (transfer function plot is in previous post): http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ever...g-discovers-high-end-audio-6.html#post2865836
I see this kind also in halcro (candy's EC) but looks like Candy make it limited for its stability when GNFB applied and he cleverly hide it from specs measurements and his patents.
Yes, the price is absurd; maybe for people who buy Swiss watches too without asking their wifes
It can not be pure class A with 2 x 130W/8ohm and ca. 200W of idle power consumption.
Maybe "enriched" classA/B.
The other thing I noticed about that amp was that the manufacturer claims a DF of 10 000 while the measurements in its review suggest a DF of 133.
Soulution Factory Tour
I suppose they could give that kitchen appliance or a power tool as a gift with each purchase.
I suppose they could give that kitchen appliance or a power tool as a gift with each purchase.
I didnt mean the soulution is based on blameless, I meant a blameless design with carefull design can match the performance figures of the solution amp. See for example how they get high DF, 14 output transistors for 260W, do the same with a blameless and .........
About the price:
Not really realistic reason.
The name is soulution not solution
@charles
but CH say low DF at the review.
It says ultra-low output impedance in the text part of the review and in the specification part it says DF >10 000 giving an output impedance of ≤0.0008 Ohm.
In the measurement part they measured output impedance as 0.06 Ohm which gives a DF of 133.333 on an 8Ohm load.
Granted this includes 6ft of cable but my speaker cable, which is nothing special, at 1m measures less than 0.0049 Ohm.
6ft is just short of 2m so using 4x 0.0049Ohm/m plus an output impedance of 0.0008 gives a DF of about 400, not the 133.33 they measured.
So either the factory spec is way over-optimistic or they used fuse wire as speaker cable. Or a bit of both…
How does one determine when it's priced right ..... ?
It's more of a negative evaluation factor.
best sounding? No , but good sounding , high value...
guys,
sorry for butting into the thread. A couple of amps/reveivers that I've had previous experience with:
1) Here's something that almost all overlook: Nakamichi STASIS receivers and amplifiers. Nelson Pass/Threshold licensed STASIS topography. Within their individual limitations some of the most enjoyable pieces I've heard. The receivers are easily available on the used market and if combined with appropriate sources, can make the basis for a very inexpensive yet enjoyable system.
The OMS series of Nakamichi cd players sound great as well, but at this age, most may come or will come to mechanical failure. Each OMS cd player had real people tune each individual player, something that was pretty much unheard of 25 years ago for "mass market" pieces.
With the right speakers a system such as this can sound magical (considering the price).
2) One of the most memorable systems I had ever heard was pretty modest too. The amplification was based on a Bryston .5B preamp and a 2B-LP amplifier. Driving the low density "Matrix" DM1600 monitors (ever notice a complete lack of these models on the used market. I wonder why?...) was a treat. I still covet this combination. Again add an appropriate source and you're there. The .5B and the 2B-LP evolved into the BP-50 or BP-60 or something like that. Unsure if that piece ever had a phonostage and I have never heard one, but it should be a stand out as well. This combination driving those speakers truly are "magic".
guys,
sorry for butting into the thread. A couple of amps/reveivers that I've had previous experience with:
1) Here's something that almost all overlook: Nakamichi STASIS receivers and amplifiers. Nelson Pass/Threshold licensed STASIS topography. Within their individual limitations some of the most enjoyable pieces I've heard. The receivers are easily available on the used market and if combined with appropriate sources, can make the basis for a very inexpensive yet enjoyable system.
The OMS series of Nakamichi cd players sound great as well, but at this age, most may come or will come to mechanical failure. Each OMS cd player had real people tune each individual player, something that was pretty much unheard of 25 years ago for "mass market" pieces.
With the right speakers a system such as this can sound magical (considering the price).
2) One of the most memorable systems I had ever heard was pretty modest too. The amplification was based on a Bryston .5B preamp and a 2B-LP amplifier. Driving the low density "Matrix" DM1600 monitors (ever notice a complete lack of these models on the used market. I wonder why?...) was a treat. I still covet this combination. Again add an appropriate source and you're there. The .5B and the 2B-LP evolved into the BP-50 or BP-60 or something like that. Unsure if that piece ever had a phonostage and I have never heard one, but it should be a stand out as well. This combination driving those speakers truly are "magic".
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They should go to the rival, priced lower or may be almost half, that makes the buyer think and will choose after listen to them. Unless they choosing fanatic buyer that buy amps with gold case and wires, and it is different story.How does one determine when it's priced right ..... ?
Huh ....The price/value is what the market will bare/ accept ..
That's what most of the manufacturers like to think.
And that's the exact mentality that led to 99% of the HiEnd stuff out there to be overpriced.
And what will the market accept/bare? How do you judge that?
If I make a cable that costs me $40 to make, I can charge $100 and sell 100 in a year. Or I can charge $1000 for it and sell 10 a year.
In the second scenario, I sell less cables but have more profit (since I lose less in raw materials).
So I guess the conlusion is that I should have charged $10.000 and then I would only have to find one sucker each year who will spend $10.000 for a $40 cable (maximizing my profits, since I'd only lose $40 in raw materials) ?
Not to mention that the less you sell and the more you charge, the more "exclusive" you can appear....
Thank God a sucker is born every minute, I guess.
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Thats how brands like Goldmund and Soulution make their money
That's how the whole HiEnd industry works, more or less.
Especially in cables and "minimalist" electronics they must work with huge profit margins.
That's why I've come to "respect" companies that at least offer what should be a given aka gear you cannot DIY in a couple of days, properly built, with decent measurements, good mechanical construction etc.
As a greek saying goes: Among the blind, an one-eyed guy is King.
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