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Old 8th August 2011, 10:44 PM   #1
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Default Dx hybrid amplifier will be produced soon

A joint venture with TGM laboratories (Bigun) have born in the last Corporation's meeting when the agreement was voted.

Bigun will develop the tube front end...so TGM front end...the output will be Dx amplifier.

Depending how long it takes to receive electronic tubes from Russia, we will decide the release date.

TGM laboratories may use mains supply rectified and filtered, having current limit to reduce danger....heater will be made with voltage regulator...heater will operate with DC...output will be Dx style (EF) and may have Zuper A circuits on it.

50/100 watts of power...distortion will be high compared to transistors..because input is tube...but sonics will be from tubes (mainly)

The agreement was celebrated...the joint venture is for this amplifier only...so, an association that has a target.

I cannot talk too much....it is a secret for a while...will be diy, offered for free, in this same forum and also in the tube forum....because both worlds will be now combined.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 8th August 2011, 10:50 PM   #2
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destroyer X View Post
......distortion will be high compared to transistors..because input is tube......
Carlos
Mr. C.

maybe your tubes are like that ......

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Old 8th August 2011, 10:57 PM   #3
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Default Russian tubes.

THD is usually higher in tubes...also harmonic distribution use to be different.

Well...tubes are TGM problem.... usually they sound great and measure bad.

Tube model will be informed in the release date, to avoid controversies....for a while, all i can say is that will be double triode....so, one tube to each channel.

Carlos
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Last edited by destroyer X; 8th August 2011 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 8th August 2011, 11:44 PM   #4
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Well, look what I got myself into ... I offered a couple of tubes to the Destroyer and the next thing I know, I'm on a new project

Why hybrid ? - well I figure this hobby had it's origins with tubes so I should at least get up close with a couple of them at some point. Trouble is, they work at low current and high voltage and mostly at low power. So for real POWER Carlos is going to add some DX magic at the output stage

There are a lot of good tubes to choose from but it just so happens that I wanted to play with some tubes that didn't need to be operated at very high voltages for a friend of mine who wanted to show his kids what a tube was.

So I placed a small order for some 6N23pi tubes (equivalent to the E88CC / 6DJ8 ).
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File Type: jpg 6N23P_e.jpg (36.8 KB, 1266 views)
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Old 10th August 2011, 09:00 PM   #5
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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Well, I am now understanding that a DX Corp. amplifier is expected to meet some stiff requirements:

low measured distortion, no triple outputs but only double EF (tubes like to drive light loads which favours triple outputs), good PSRR of course, good stability and gain matching between channels, high damping factor for bass response and no pesky dc-offset issues.

All this favours use of global negative feedback and dc-coupling throughout. In short, the familiar DX topology. It doesn't appear suited to a hybrid.

Carlos suggested why put tubes into DX topology, use for LTP and VAS. Well this ain't easy since tubes come in only one flavour, n-type.

I thought I would post an idea of how to do this.

I use tubes for LTP and VAS. connect the output of the LTP to the VAS using a technique invented by a man called Taylor, it's known for use in the Taylor Follower. It requires a pnp device.

I'll attach what I came up with. First the schematic, then the Spice file (change .txt to .asc before running it).
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File Type: jpg DXHybrid5_schematic.jpg (63.3 KB, 1251 views)
Attached Files
File Type: txt DX_Hybrid5.txt (10.9 KB, 67 views)
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Last edited by Bigun; 10th August 2011 at 09:09 PM.
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Old 10th August 2011, 09:02 PM   #6
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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The results of the simulation are:


Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+03 2.208e+01 1.000e+00 0.46° 0.00°
2 2.000e+03 1.270e-02 5.751e-04 94.96° 94.50°
3 3.000e+03 2.463e-03 1.116e-04 4.08° 3.62°
4 4.000e+03 1.631e-05 7.387e-07 -60.54° -61.00°
5 5.000e+03 3.130e-04 1.418e-05 -175.29° -175.75°
6 6.000e+03 4.121e-05 1.867e-06 -91.13° -91.59°
7 7.000e+03 8.385e-05 3.798e-06 7.04° 6.58°
8 8.000e+03 1.157e-05 5.241e-07 110.95° 110.49°
9 9.000e+03 2.356e-05 1.067e-06 -172.30° -172.76°
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.058599%
f= 1kHz
O/P = +/- 22V peak = 30W into 8 Ohm

Personally, I like the FFT profile.

Output stage idle current is around 60mA.

Most of you don't play with tubes - just think of them as JFETs for the most part...
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Last edited by Bigun; 10th August 2011 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 10th August 2011, 10:53 PM   #7
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Default Congratulations Bigun...you did the whole job

Thank you, now i have only to simulate and to build.

Exactly the way i wanted....perfect!

I am gladly we agreed that this previous one distorted too much.

regards,

Carlos
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Last edited by destroyer X; 10th August 2011 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 10th August 2011, 11:21 PM   #8
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Carlos, Gareth,

Creative circuit, particularly the SS VAS drive!

By using a SS VAS to drive the tube VAS, then fixing the closed loop gain with feedback, you create considerable loop gain. How many db, I imagine it would be a lot dominated by the Taylor connected PNP, but it will reduce THD. This will correct the output stage non-linearities but the profile you get will still be dominated at the high order by odd harmonics because of the output stage.

I guess the acid test is a good listen, but I believe that taking at least one of the tubes out of the feedback loop so it's open loop sonics dominate. You could do this by dropping the LTP input stage, making it a singleton, then preceding it with an open loop plate loaded triode.

I hope this is useful, I don't mean to criticise....

Hugh
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Last edited by AKSA; 10th August 2011 at 11:26 PM.
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Old 11th August 2011, 08:28 AM   #9
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Default Thank you Hugh......but i could not understand

Can you please post a sketch showing the topology you mean ...not needed values...just the topologie....of course i will study your suggestion, it will be simulated and may be built....all i need is to understand.

Gareth may understand as his mother language is English....you see meaning of load and loading for me....i do not know you understand this words in the same way.

Image shows what i understand as colector load and colector loading. (plate load or plate loading)

Acid test?... what is this?

regards,

Carlos
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File Type: jpg What.jpg (415.0 KB, 1101 views)
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Last edited by destroyer X; 11th August 2011 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 11th August 2011, 10:04 AM   #10
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Default Boys...uncle Charlie is a hell busy running other designs

Zuper A is a hell hard and i am working on it..also running several group buys and several different foruns...also Orkut, Youtube activities and preparing together Joel three amplifier layout for future release.

Dx Hybrid was not to be shown....because it is an idea to be developed by TGM and Dx in a joint venture but to be published July, 17th 2012... because i will be free to run this in the future...not now.

We made mistake publishing schematic, and this should be a secret..my mistake... this is not a forum cooperative group design..it is a personal design made by joint venture and should not leak until the date decided in the first post.

So, i am making arrangements with TGM (bigun) to run this project in secret..between us.... till the release date...or if he have time to run alone, then he will open a new thread, will call it TGM Hybrid and will go ahead.

Then i will present another one, in this thread.... in July, 17th 2012.

I cannot run this now.... and i do not think it is fine my name on it when i will be almost out from this task....so, it is more fair to Bigun to use his own name as he will run the project himself.

I can do it...but not now.... published schematics alike we did will have as result, some people interested and they may ask us the development and to have layout... test prototype, boards and so on... and maybe group buy..and i cannot do that now..i am too much busy.

So...long life to Dx Hybrid to be released in July, 17th, 2012.... and circuit will be a secret till that date...so... cannot be this one already shown because this one is not a secret anymore ... ahahahahah!

Or, long life to TGM Hybrid to be release the date Bigun wants... this way we gonna have TWO Hybrid in the place of a single one.... and two is better than one.

regards,

Carlos
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