Just like painting VS photography. All is a question of what you are looking for: Emotion, or transparency.
As a sound engineer, i wonder such a nostalgia in so many "audiophile's" minds. If you are looking for that kind of "nice sounding" sound reproduction, just use tube amps. they are not transparent, but will give you more "emotional fulfilment" that any SS amp you can imagine.
This old troll "Digital vs analog" make-me laugh. When you just had finished a mix and you listen to the first vinyl from-it, you can just cry. While no question listening to any good digital copy/clone.
We were enjoying all the session and it was, as usual, unawarely over too quick.
I'm still waiting to hear mine
any word on boards , will this happen ?
Really, when you work all the days in a recording studio, you know what is before/after tape.
On an analog tape, even legendary ones, everybody is able to hear the difference immediately. (Even if you can feel sometimes some tracks sounds better after tape than before ;-) With a (good) digital machine, it is near impossible to make any difference, and i believe the difference is due to their analog parts. Each time you run the analog tape in front of the heads, you lose a little more of your sound, and it is a pain during re-recording sessions..
Vinyl is catastrophic. It adds a lot of distortion, noises, losses of treble and dynamic, and bring a curtain between you and the source. It is OBVIOUS when you compare to the original master, even on the Neumann grooving machine of the best mastering rooms.
On an other side, I is very difficult to make a good mix on a digital desk (it does not mix the things together, and frequency corrections does not change the sounds the way you want).
My personal conclusion is, for production to use both of the two worlds for the best they offer, for reproduction, thank digital forever. And their is thousand less difference between a vinyl sampled on a HD than the vinyl itself after 10 time listening sessions ;-)
Well, i have to say that my purpose about audio is to listen to music, not to listen to my sound equipments ;-) And i like to listen very often my favorite tracks.
(And, yes, i have a very good radial arm turn table i never use.)
Anyway, vinyl is out of the business nowadays,, and even CDs. For very good reasons.
On an analog tape, even legendary ones, everybody is able to hear the difference immediately. (Even if you can feel sometimes some tracks sounds better after tape than before ;-) With a (good) digital machine, it is near impossible to make any difference, and i believe the difference is due to their analog parts. Each time you run the analog tape in front of the heads, you lose a little more of your sound, and it is a pain during re-recording sessions..
Vinyl is catastrophic. It adds a lot of distortion, noises, losses of treble and dynamic, and bring a curtain between you and the source. It is OBVIOUS when you compare to the original master, even on the Neumann grooving machine of the best mastering rooms.
On an other side, I is very difficult to make a good mix on a digital desk (it does not mix the things together, and frequency corrections does not change the sounds the way you want).
My personal conclusion is, for production to use both of the two worlds for the best they offer, for reproduction, thank digital forever. And their is thousand less difference between a vinyl sampled on a HD than the vinyl itself after 10 time listening sessions ;-)
Well, i have to say that my purpose about audio is to listen to music, not to listen to my sound equipments ;-) And i like to listen very often my favorite tracks.
(And, yes, i have a very good radial arm turn table i never use.)
Anyway, vinyl is out of the business nowadays,, and even CDs. For very good reasons.
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Yes , yes , No , No and No .....
Vinyl is not out of bizniz, quite the contrary and yes analog is a bear and Yes Digital saved the music bizniz and No, digital CD's purchased don't sound like the original master tapes nor recording .
The problem is not the medium, it's the final tally and in the end dragging a nail thru a groove, just sounds natural , Digital artifacts maybe more accurate , but its difference in reproduction is not natural to the ear IMO.
and
Yes, it is very difficult to get good analog software, digital stuff abound, fortunately the best pressing plants and mastering make really good analog excellent , well pleasing to the ear ...
You should break out that TT and listen to a DTD recording ...............
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@Esperado,
The two camps have found there can be no agreement between them on this issue. I know many professional recording engineers in London and even they cannot agree. It is also off-topic so I suggest we leave it there, otherwise it could ruin a good thread...it is my fault for raising the issue.
The two camps have found there can be no agreement between them on this issue. I know many professional recording engineers in London and even they cannot agree. It is also off-topic so I suggest we leave it there, otherwise it could ruin a good thread...it is my fault for raising the issue.
nice to see you back Brianco...
Thank you...just sent a PM to you.
.
Yes Joachim, you are correct on both points!
Hi to all of you 
Little bit late I jumped in hehe, anyway I should say something about all analog expression I stated.
As I said in given system, which happens to be our club/shop where local enthusiasts meet, analog source was a little bit better performer than the other equipment present there. Sometimes superb digital source is present but not this time, since most of the equipment is sold out since the shop will move to another location. What you've seen are more or less leftovers.
I also agree with Esperado, digital is the future, I heard few master recordings in 24/96 resolution and I have to say the format pleases me in full. The problem is availability and quality of recordings, still not always up to the expected level. But this will come slowly as high resolution will be standard and others will diminished completely.
In my home system I have only digital, mostly streamers and what interests me most is Resolution audio Cantata music centre, all in one piece. This I look forward to hear in forthcoming exhibition in Munich.
It's nice to read all of you here in one spot, comment anything (near the topic) you like, so you're all welcome anytime. Regards Andrej
Little bit late I jumped in hehe, anyway I should say something about all analog expression I stated.
As I said in given system, which happens to be our club/shop where local enthusiasts meet, analog source was a little bit better performer than the other equipment present there. Sometimes superb digital source is present but not this time, since most of the equipment is sold out since the shop will move to another location. What you've seen are more or less leftovers.
I also agree with Esperado, digital is the future, I heard few master recordings in 24/96 resolution and I have to say the format pleases me in full. The problem is availability and quality of recordings, still not always up to the expected level. But this will come slowly as high resolution will be standard and others will diminished completely.
In my home system I have only digital, mostly streamers and what interests me most is Resolution audio Cantata music centre, all in one piece. This I look forward to hear in forthcoming exhibition in Munich.
It's nice to read all of you here in one spot, comment anything (near the topic) you like, so you're all welcome anytime. Regards Andrej
100% Agree
Andrej,
Congrats on Yours beautifully made Amplifier, and for the sound You mention also.
Joachim
You are Sooo Right and I Just wonder to AGREE 100% with Yours statements.
- From My own past experiences . . .
Only the correct setup-up analogue -- Vinyl playback chain is fair to make any comparation vs any-source digital !
Any Digital system is already factory-settled and no end user is necessary to operate 100% as is claimed by the unit specs.
But for 100% Vinyl playback it is necessary to have at least mid-Fi Turntable pack or if possible at least Linn LP12 full_Pack)
Optimum LP player would be VersaDinamics with air-linear tracking tonearm+LiraTitan i.
Needed pre-amplification need to be specifically tuned to the particularly LP player, tonearm, MC pick UP and the last...
a very experienced-trained person with a lot of finest mechanical & electrical skils + spectrum analys. + long time trained ears.
All this is needed to achieve the same basic 95% correct LP playback system to be ready for
any serious, documented + hearing verified comparation vs. any other source media playback.
If these needed criteria wasn't achieved for LP playback chain than any statements, conclusions -
(how bad-worse is the Vinyl vs. any digital) are totally pointless and have no weight.
Yes digital meet its claimed potential easily without any adjustment-setup-skills needed it's
true plug & play, contrary to analogue source (LP) where possible only some 35-45%
LP source players achieve 80% mechanical-electrical correct setup.
If anyone wonder to really know what is currently the closest best digital source compared
to
- The BEST Analogue -
Each Mic. (max 3.pcs) with its own individual preamp in Mic-Body + shortest HiQ Mic cables.
All Mic-Preamps then summed in HiQ summing amplifier (avoiding any mixing console) to 2CH direct transfer
to highly modded Neuman SX74 (FR 7Hz - 32Khz - 33_1/2 r.p.m. + - 2dB at extremes)Direct-Cuted to blank HiQ Vinyl lacquer disc.
- Second best Analogue -
Same 2CH O/P from a summing amp distributed from an recorder I/P distribution amp
to (2x12 CH paralell) REC Heads preamps, to a 2inch tape, bias set to +9 dB
on a STUDER A800 MK III analogue tape deck recorded at 30 ips speed and direct transfered from it
to highly modded Neuman SX74 (FR 7Hz - 32Khz +- 2dB 33_1/2 r.p.m.) Direct-Cuted to blank HiQ Vinyl lacquer disk.
These two Vinyl discs need the to be the Analogue source and played back on the 95% correct mech. adj. LP player
-- This way produced LP Analog source master would easily to compare with these digital media recordings --
1. DSD 128X - 5,6 Mhz-1bit - Currently the best digital source-media
and the only nearest harmonically and impulse perfect compared to best analogue one.
2. PCM DXD 352.8 Khz-24bit - Currently second best digital source-media
3. LPCM 192Khz - 32bit, - Currently the third best digital source-media
All other digital sources-formats are excluded from this comparative test because of degraded replay of super-sonic audio
spectra -3dB at 36 Khz.
- Still the best Analogue master LP disc and the best Digital recording is possible to make on demand these days . . .
Each source have to get the same original raw I/P audio from a 4x stereo HiQ distribution splitter recorded to each media
format mentioned and played back through the same format playback device, if solid state or tube pre-amplification will be
used then the only true-balanced topology + properly terminated connection is to be used from the very beginning till the
end (speakers) and as much as possible the same technical quality components should be chosen-used within the prempl.
equipm. , for both Vinyl and digital I/V to Line-Level O/P.
Now warm up the whole setups - precondition anything if necessary, use the appropriate test discs for correct calibration of
the both setups and make measurement verifications - to the same initial OP levels then listen the same material on both
setups with some 7 to 10 musician friends from a regular symphony orchestra - avoid all kind of HiEnd Golden ears guys
and compare the two setups - then make qualified statement in agreement with the musicians and
the results would be "SURPRISED"
Andrej,
Congrats on Yours beautifully made Amplifier, and for the sound You mention also.
Joachim
You are Sooo Right and I Just wonder to AGREE 100% with Yours statements.
- From My own past experiences . . .
Only the correct setup-up analogue -- Vinyl playback chain is fair to make any comparation vs any-source digital !
Any Digital system is already factory-settled and no end user is necessary to operate 100% as is claimed by the unit specs.
But for 100% Vinyl playback it is necessary to have at least mid-Fi Turntable pack or if possible at least Linn LP12 full_Pack)
Optimum LP player would be VersaDinamics with air-linear tracking tonearm+LiraTitan i.
Needed pre-amplification need to be specifically tuned to the particularly LP player, tonearm, MC pick UP and the last...
a very experienced-trained person with a lot of finest mechanical & electrical skils + spectrum analys. + long time trained ears.
All this is needed to achieve the same basic 95% correct LP playback system to be ready for
any serious, documented + hearing verified comparation vs. any other source media playback.
If these needed criteria wasn't achieved for LP playback chain than any statements, conclusions -
(how bad-worse is the Vinyl vs. any digital) are totally pointless and have no weight.
Yes digital meet its claimed potential easily without any adjustment-setup-skills needed it's
true plug & play, contrary to analogue source (LP) where possible only some 35-45%
LP source players achieve 80% mechanical-electrical correct setup.
If anyone wonder to really know what is currently the closest best digital source compared to
- The BEST Analogue -
Each Mic. (max 3.pcs) with its own individual preamp in Mic-Body + shortest HiQ Mic cables.
All Mic-Preamps then summed in HiQ summing amplifier (avoiding any mixing console) to 2CH direct transfer
to highly modded Neuman SX74 (FR 7Hz - 32Khz - 33_1/2 r.p.m. + - 2dB at extremes)Direct-Cuted to blank HiQ Vinyl lacquer disc.
- Second best Analogue -
Same 2CH O/P from a summing amp distributed from an recorder I/P distribution amp
to (2x12 CH paralell) REC Heads preamps, to a 2inch tape, bias set to +9 dB
on a STUDER A800 MK III analogue tape deck recorded at 30 ips speed and direct transfered from it
to highly modded Neuman SX74 (FR 7Hz - 32Khz +- 2dB 33_1/2 r.p.m.) Direct-Cuted to blank HiQ Vinyl lacquer disk.
These two Vinyl discs need the to be the Analogue source and played back on the 95% correct mech. adj. LP player
-- This way produced LP Analog source master would easily to compare with these digital media recordings --
1. DSD 128X - 5,6 Mhz-1bit - Currently the best digital source-media
and the only nearest harmonically and impulse perfect compared to best analogue one.
2. PCM DXD 352.8 Khz-24bit - Currently second best digital source-media
3. LPCM 192Khz - 32bit, - Currently the third best digital source-media
All other digital sources-formats are excluded from this comparative test because of degraded replay of super-sonic audio
spectra -3dB at 36 Khz.
- Still the best Analogue master LP disc and the best Digital recording is possible to make on demand these days . . .
Each source have to get the same original raw I/P audio from a 4x stereo HiQ distribution splitter recorded to each media
format mentioned and played back through the same format playback device, if solid state or tube pre-amplification will be
used then the only true-balanced topology + properly terminated connection is to be used from the very beginning till the
end (speakers) and as much as possible the same technical quality components should be chosen-used within the prempl.
equipm. , for both Vinyl and digital I/V to Line-Level O/P.
Now warm up the whole setups - precondition anything if necessary, use the appropriate test discs for correct calibration of
the both setups and make measurement verifications - to the same initial OP levels then listen the same material on both
setups with some 7 to 10 musician friends from a regular symphony orchestra - avoid all kind of HiEnd Golden ears guys
and compare the two setups - then make qualified statement in agreement with the musicians and
the results would be "SURPRISED"
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That was Bora's iteration of an amp suggestion from me, diamond buffer input plus BIGBT output. It was discussed in here.
Andrej,
Congrats on Yours beautifully made Amplifier, and for the sound You mention also.
Thank you very much, I appreciated a lot.
Thanks for digital vs. analog recording-mastering informations, very educational.
I would love to hear this amp ......Is this possible Heathcliff ... .
Hi a.wayne
Since you're sitting in a front row that wouldn't be a problem.
Beam me (and SSA) up Scotty.
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