The name of Swiss audio equipment manufacturer Orpheus Laboratories is all over the Internet recently, but entirely for their new slimline products. These older products are anything but slim! And finding information about them has proven next to impossible for me! I guess they are not mass-produced products but custom-made. There is zero documentation with this set, but the component layout is so simple, I should think it wouldn�ft be all that hard to service. (Wishful thinking.) Does anyone recognize any of them? Or, by looking at the insides, can you venture an educated guess as to what each piece of equipment might do? Finally, how old might this equipment be, based on the design? I can pick up all five units plus a few stray cables for the equivalent of US $400, including delivery to my door. Is this a no-brainer purchase? Or should I be skeptical? The seller knows less about this stuff than I do, and just wants to see it find a good home. He thinks they may have been used in a studio. I would guess either that or an auditorium. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! Thank you.
Christopher Witmer
Tokyo
Links to photos of "Orpheus Music Reference" system
Christopher Witmer
Tokyo
Links to photos of "Orpheus Music Reference" system
Attachments
Some clarification on how I'm confused
In case anyone is interested in helping me out, I thought I would bring people up to speed on what I have learned so far:
1. It isn't made by Orpheus Laboratories in Switzerland. It is either a small manufacturer's one-off or a individual's work.
2. The set consists of a passive preamp and two power amplifiers. Each power amplifier has a power supply housed in a separate cabinet. The power supply cabinets also house 4 VU meters each. Two of these VU meters are labeled "V" and two are labeled "A," so we have two channels being monitored for voltage and wattage.
3. The power amplifers are of different outputs, so they are intended for bi-amping.
4. The power supplies seem to lack filtering capacitors. I don't see capacitors anywhere. This strikes me as very odd. I'm no expert, and I know DC amplifiers eliminate capacitors between amp stages, but I never heard of an amp that didn't have a capacitor anywhere.
5. Another very peculiar feature is that each amplifier seems to have only a single speaker connection, even though there are clearly two input channels. This almost makes sense -- two monaural amplifiers give stereo -- until one remembers that the two amplifers are of vastly different outputs. They are clearly intended for bi-amping. Biamping for a single loudspeaker? When the amps have two input channels? One person suggested that perhaps the speaker terminals are somewhat similar to the Neutrik Speakon connectors, that use four-core cable to connect multiple speakers with a single connector.
At any rate, these are truly UNUSUAL amplifiers. If anyone can gain any new insights from looking at the pictures, I'd sure be glad to hear!
In case anyone is interested in helping me out, I thought I would bring people up to speed on what I have learned so far:
1. It isn't made by Orpheus Laboratories in Switzerland. It is either a small manufacturer's one-off or a individual's work.
2. The set consists of a passive preamp and two power amplifiers. Each power amplifier has a power supply housed in a separate cabinet. The power supply cabinets also house 4 VU meters each. Two of these VU meters are labeled "V" and two are labeled "A," so we have two channels being monitored for voltage and wattage.
3. The power amplifers are of different outputs, so they are intended for bi-amping.
4. The power supplies seem to lack filtering capacitors. I don't see capacitors anywhere. This strikes me as very odd. I'm no expert, and I know DC amplifiers eliminate capacitors between amp stages, but I never heard of an amp that didn't have a capacitor anywhere.
5. Another very peculiar feature is that each amplifier seems to have only a single speaker connection, even though there are clearly two input channels. This almost makes sense -- two monaural amplifiers give stereo -- until one remembers that the two amplifers are of vastly different outputs. They are clearly intended for bi-amping. Biamping for a single loudspeaker? When the amps have two input channels? One person suggested that perhaps the speaker terminals are somewhat similar to the Neutrik Speakon connectors, that use four-core cable to connect multiple speakers with a single connector.
At any rate, these are truly UNUSUAL amplifiers. If anyone can gain any new insights from looking at the pictures, I'd sure be glad to hear!
The top two boxes look rather like power supplies, judging from connectors and insides.
The middle box (with the two knobs) is clearly a preamp with volume control and input selector.
The bottom two are power amps, one possibly more powerful than the other (very small heatsink in one of the amps); one of the heatsinks may have been replaced at some time. Otherwise the electronics seem quite alike.
The abscence of transformers, and the connector layout, suggests that the two top boxes are separate power supplies; probably the big one for the power amps and the small one for the preamp.
No idea as to age, cost etc. I definately wouldn't buy anything before seeing, touching and hearing it in real life... man I had bad experiences with buying used gear even after having touched and heard etc.!
In general, it is seldom that you find something good really cheap, unless there is something wrong with it
Happy hunting
The middle box (with the two knobs) is clearly a preamp with volume control and input selector.
The bottom two are power amps, one possibly more powerful than the other (very small heatsink in one of the amps); one of the heatsinks may have been replaced at some time. Otherwise the electronics seem quite alike.
The abscence of transformers, and the connector layout, suggests that the two top boxes are separate power supplies; probably the big one for the power amps and the small one for the preamp.
No idea as to age, cost etc. I definately wouldn't buy anything before seeing, touching and hearing it in real life... man I had bad experiences with buying used gear even after having touched and heard etc.!
In general, it is seldom that you find something good really cheap, unless there is something wrong with it
Happy hunting
The pictures show virtually everything
Arne, thanks for your kind reply. There are 17 pictures in all at the link provided in the original post, and they show each piece of equipment from front, rear, and then inside. The pictures could be a bit sharper, but basically they show almost everything that there is to see.
Gratefully,
Christopher Witmer
Arne, thanks for your kind reply. There are 17 pictures in all at the link provided in the original post, and they show each piece of equipment from front, rear, and then inside. The pictures could be a bit sharper, but basically they show almost everything that there is to see.
Gratefully,
Christopher Witmer
I think you are wrong about the two channel inputs on the power amps. I think they are the power connectors - look at the back of the power supply. Same connector type. I think the signal connector is the white one located at beside the speaker terminal (matches the shielded cable inside).
And I think the little PSU may be for the preamp - or possible for preamp and driver stages of power amps. The bigger PSU for both power amps, or only for output stages (explains the two power input connectors). The preamp isn't passive, it has a power input to the left of the back panel. Probably has phono input (has an earth terminal).
The PA's are definately mono; only one input cable (white) and two speaker output cables (copper) inside.
I woudn't be sure about the bi-amping in mono - the more I think of it, the more probable that the amps are electronically identical, but one of them for some reason has a larger heatsink than the other. Look at the components; they seem the same, and the number of power transistors is also the same.
Filtering caps: there looks like a very high inductance after the transformers, which should tackle som PSU noise; the power amps may make do with the blue caps you see on the pictures.
/cdl
And I think the little PSU may be for the preamp - or possible for preamp and driver stages of power amps. The bigger PSU for both power amps, or only for output stages (explains the two power input connectors). The preamp isn't passive, it has a power input to the left of the back panel. Probably has phono input (has an earth terminal).
The PA's are definately mono; only one input cable (white) and two speaker output cables (copper) inside.
I woudn't be sure about the bi-amping in mono - the more I think of it, the more probable that the amps are electronically identical, but one of them for some reason has a larger heatsink than the other. Look at the components; they seem the same, and the number of power transistors is also the same.
Filtering caps: there looks like a very high inductance after the transformers, which should tackle som PSU noise; the power amps may make do with the blue caps you see on the pictures.
/cdl
cdl said:
CDL, I think you are amazing to be able to see something so simple that MANY others -- including some very talented amp designers -- overlooked. I guess sometimes it's all a matter of being able to get the right perspective on something. In any case, I think you have nailed it.
cdl said:
You know, I thought those were porcelain wire-wound resistors, and I kept thinking to myself, "What on earth are these huge resistors doing here? It doesn't make sense." I'll say it doesn't make sense! Talk about a nutty idea! But I wonder what kind of capacitors those are? I've never seen anything like them.
Thanks again! Brilliant detective work from afar!
Christopher Witmer
Hi Chris,
I don't think they [green things in PSU's] are capacitors, but inductors (coils, that is), which do (simplified, in any case) just about the opposite of capacitors.
So (very simplified) instead of a large capacitance in parallel with the transformer, and a small inductance / resistance in series with it (as most power supplies), these amps may use the opposite approach:
A large inductance (the green coils) in series with the transformer, and smaller capacitance (the blue caps in the power amp housings) might do just about the same job?
[any comments on this from someone more experienced in electronics than me???]
Anyway, I think that might be the explanation for the lacking filtering caps... would require a rather well-sized tranny, I guess.
Cheers
I don't think they [green things in PSU's] are capacitors, but inductors (coils, that is), which do (simplified, in any case) just about the opposite of capacitors.
So (very simplified) instead of a large capacitance in parallel with the transformer, and a small inductance / resistance in series with it (as most power supplies), these amps may use the opposite approach:
A large inductance (the green coils) in series with the transformer, and smaller capacitance (the blue caps in the power amp housings) might do just about the same job?
[any comments on this from someone more experienced in electronics than me???]
Anyway, I think that might be the explanation for the lacking filtering caps... would require a rather well-sized tranny, I guess.
Cheers
Still more questions !
Now, my only remaining worry is, how hard is something like this going to be to repair if it malfunctions? (Seeing as I lack any documentation.)
I should think that any decent repair technician should be able to find his way around inside this equipment. But if the power amplifiers are getting power from TWO power supplies, it means that if either power amplifier needs servicing, a total of three pieces of equipment will have to be sent in to the shop!
Is isolation of power supplies like this really advantageous from the perspective of hi-fi sound reproduction?
THANKS!
-- Chris Witmer
Now, my only remaining worry is, how hard is something like this going to be to repair if it malfunctions? (Seeing as I lack any documentation.)
I should think that any decent repair technician should be able to find his way around inside this equipment. But if the power amplifiers are getting power from TWO power supplies, it means that if either power amplifier needs servicing, a total of three pieces of equipment will have to be sent in to the shop!
Is isolation of power supplies like this really advantageous from the perspective of hi-fi sound reproduction?
THANKS!
-- Chris Witmer
cdwitmer, I'm a little 
but you own this stuff but don't know what it is? Anyway if something is broken it seems rather easy to fix it. I gather it should be rather easy to do some reverse engineering.
It seems very home built but rather nice though. If it had factory built the gear should be marked in same way.
but you own this stuff but don't know what it is? Anyway if something is broken it seems rather easy to fix it. I gather it should be rather easy to do some reverse engineering.It seems very home built but rather nice though. If it had factory built the gear should be marked in same way.
Thanks, peranders - I don't own it (yet)
The equipment is owned by an acquaintance who lives about an hour drive away. He knows ZERO about audio and all he could do to explain the equipment is send me these pictures. He is willing to bring it to me to check out, with no obligation on my part. But I didn't want him to take the trouble of bringing the equipment unless I was sure I would be interested. Now I think I'm interested.
-- Christopher Witmer
The equipment is owned by an acquaintance who lives about an hour drive away. He knows ZERO about audio and all he could do to explain the equipment is send me these pictures. He is willing to bring it to me to check out, with no obligation on my part. But I didn't want him to take the trouble of bringing the equipment unless I was sure I would be interested. Now I think I'm interested.
-- Christopher Witmer
cdwitmer said:
Chris,
I think they really ARE porcelain ww resistors. They look like them. From the wiring it looks like inrush-current limiting for the bridges. They are much to small for chokes, especially for low volt/high current. The question remains: where are the filter caps? The blue ones in the power amp are much to small to be filter caps.
Jan Didden
janneman said:
Jan, I guess you are correct about the "porcelain wire-wound resistors" -- at least, they aren't caps. Perhaps CDL's theory is correct -- "A large inductance (the green coils) in series with the transformer, and smaller capacitance (the blue caps in the power amp housings) might do just about the same job? [as filter caps] . . . Anyway, I think that might be the explanation for the lacking filtering caps... would require a rather well-sized tranny, I guess."
janneman said:
You have a point there, jannemann - they look too small and look more like resistors.
Might the caps have been connected externally somehow - I was thinking about what the external wires connected with screw terminals on the back of one of the amps...
Could the things have used battery originally or something?
In a way it looks like Zen amps before their time.
I suspect, the circuitry is actually very simple. The power resistors are probably resistors in a RC filtered PS using smaller film caps perhaps. The inventor just wanted the right time constant and took the route of wanting small film caps. Novel approach!
The preamp is not passive but probably also uses a buffered arrangement with same concept for a PS.
Suspicion is that the Power amps are actually low powered class A.
I suspect the gauges are for voltages before and after the resistors to closely monitor the voltage drops across the RC filter.
My hunch.
I suspect, the circuitry is actually very simple. The power resistors are probably resistors in a RC filtered PS using smaller film caps perhaps. The inventor just wanted the right time constant and took the route of wanting small film caps. Novel approach!
The preamp is not passive but probably also uses a buffered arrangement with same concept for a PS.
Suspicion is that the Power amps are actually low powered class A.
I suspect the gauges are for voltages before and after the resistors to closely monitor the voltage drops across the RC filter.
My hunch.
Thanks, Mikett
Your hunches sound reasonable to me (not that I'm the expert here!) It's hard to find an explanation for all those VU meters otherwise.
Yes, it might be a 10 watt or so class A amplifier prior to bridging, which would make it about 40 watts per monaural output.
Thanks again!
Christopher Witmer
Your hunches sound reasonable to me (not that I'm the expert here!) It's hard to find an explanation for all those VU meters otherwise.
Yes, it might be a 10 watt or so class A amplifier prior to bridging, which would make it about 40 watts per monaural output.
Thanks again!
Christopher Witmer
In the end, I passed on it
In the end, I passed on that equipment. I had a burning curiousity to find out what was going on inside there, but finally I decided I wasn't going to risk all that money (for me it was a hefty sum). I tendered a lower offer and the seller didn't take it, so that was the end of that.
Even so, I learned a ton without having to pay a penny or fire up the oscilloscope! And I'm very grateful for that.
-- Chris Witmer
In the end, I passed on that equipment. I had a burning curiousity to find out what was going on inside there, but finally I decided I wasn't going to risk all that money (for me it was a hefty sum). I tendered a lower offer and the seller didn't take it, so that was the end of that.
Even so, I learned a ton without having to pay a penny or fire up the oscilloscope! And I'm very grateful for that.
-- Chris Witmer
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