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Old 16th February 2012, 05:55 PM   #671
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So Daniel, I'm also using 31V rails and I'm listening at very moderate levels rather..maybe I can't reach 10W even. Is it worthy to fight with dynamic range of recordings anyway in these conditions?

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Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
It looks like terranigma's board is a good design.
So, how do we get a group buy of boards?
I slightly modified that one with doing some cosmetics at power rails side. Also, its altered version has a fuse doughter board (Elvee's optimal protection layout) pads at output. An additionally wire jumper which closing feedback loop will make it one version for all.

And I didn't share my version of powerflux's pcb yet

Last edited by terranigma; 16th February 2012 at 06:01 PM.
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Old 16th February 2012, 07:54 PM   #672
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
It looks like terranigma's board is a good design.
So, how do we get a group buy of boards?
I suggest you get into contact with member Mickeymoose: he has already produced a very nice beta version (see somewhere in the previous posts), and he is in the process of preparing the final one.

I am sure he could take on board any sensible or desirable feature/improvement, including soft clip, etc.
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♫♪ My little cheap Circlophone© ♫♪
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Old 16th February 2012, 09:24 PM   #673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvee View Post
I suggest you get into contact with member Mickeymoose: he has already produced a very nice beta version (see somewhere in the previous posts), and he is in the process of preparing the final one.

I am sure he could take on board any sensible or desirable feature/improvement, including soft clip, etc.
In my opinion, Mickeymoose's pcb is too much complete for some diyers here including myself. Frankly, I have to say that I prefer well designed and approved bare pcb solutions. Hope you don't count me as negatively criticizing. I respect all efforts done in diy spirit.
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Old 17th February 2012, 01:06 AM   #674
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terran: no affront taken in your comments, but you seem to contrdict yourself (somewhat)

My original take on the C was that there is a design that suits me, I would like to listen to.

Than I decided what the needs are for my home system (2, 2+1, 4+1, and so forth) and how to best implement that

I will post the Gerber files for my layout and a partslist of specialized parts next week, the amp circuit pcb design is basically that of post #1. Use my pcb layout at your own peril

I had a great deal of fun doing this and thank Elvee for his patient input to the pcb design. I learned many a detail of pwramp design (he claims he does not how to do pcb's, I do not believe that any more!))

As Captain DYIAudio would have said: "Go boldy forward, build and listen!" E

PS: Capt. Kirk and Capt. DIYAudio are both Canadians! E

Last edited by mickeymoose; 17th February 2012 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 17th February 2012, 04:43 AM   #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terranigma View Post
So Daniel, I'm also using 31V rails and I'm listening at very moderate levels rather..maybe I can't reach 10W even. Is it worthy to fight with dynamic range of recordings anyway in these conditions?
You're using a Ferrari for cruisin main? My application is more like a Winnebago roaring to climb the Albuquerque pass, battling the wind, and flying past the 18 wheelers on the way UP. So, there's a similar amount of torque available in both cases, but our usage is somewhat different. Even so, the topic is input and neither application works optimally with water in the fuel tank. It is merely more noticeable in one application than the other.

Since I couldn't possibly answer no, the answer is yes (to quality input). The concept that I just can't seem to explain (but this is not your fault at all), is that you don't want your system artificially topped out. I think that you don't want it to sound loud unless it really is. You want to remove compression, hard sound, limiting, blare, distortion, clipping and noise from the source in order to do something better instead: Back in the old days, recordings were quite dynamic and the vacuum tube power amplifier would apply soft clip rarely and only as needed; so, when it wasn't at the top, all other music information is presented with concert realism.

Alternative answer: The cost for 4 diodes and 3 resistors to nicely accommodate a decently recorded track, probably costs less than just one track. At least I can say that it is worth the price. A knee voltage is not really a sharp wall so even at lower playback there may be a bit of action and remember that diode switch on can occur with ac+dc voltage. As an unintended bonus, it blocks some spurious noise and since diodes are capacitive, the ~5pF might assist stability slightly, which may also be audible. So, generally, yes it is well worth your time to interview that inexpensive little soft clip accessory. As far as I know, many tiny steps in generally the right direction is what makes a hi-fi amplifier. I really do appreciate your skills, so perhaps you can take what I've done and make it even better. I think the circuit assists clarity, even at a few watts, and so I would greatly appreciate a second opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by terranigma View Post
I slightly modified that one with doing some cosmetics at power rails side. Also, its altered version has a fuse daughter board (Elvee's optimal protection layout) pads at output. An additionally wire jumper which closing feedback loop will make it one version for all.
I like your upgraded "RF resistant" model that was based on a "known good" (wakibaki) and has been performing so very well and reviewed to do so. I greatly favor all of that, because what I need at this time is a nice sturdy baseline.

I have developed a filter accessory for the input that reduces compression from the source. It is the inverse partner to the soft clip. The BlareBuster circuit helps manage compressed tracks and both circuits work together without interference. In order to create this integrated amplifier piece tuned specific to Circlophone, I need a reliable baseline PCB for power amplifier that is already proofed and also uncomplicated.

A rock solid baseline baseline power amplifier is a must and so much like having a road map for a trip. Being that apartments and communities everywhere are choked with RF pollution, I would choose Terranigma's board as the most likely head start, since Chicago radio style layout has built in RF management and consequently stability benefits. It is identifiable although I've never seen that done with split rail and single layer board. And I believe that the wider spacing may help keep resistor drain applications cooler, even without a fan. The only problem is that I've never manufactured circuit boards and do not know how to do it.

Last edited by danielwritesbac; 17th February 2012 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 17th February 2012, 06:20 AM   #676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvee View Post
I suggest you get into contact with member Mickeymoose: he has already produced a very nice beta version (see somewhere in the previous posts), and he is in the process of preparing the final one. I am sure he could take on board any sensible or desirable feature/improvement, including soft clip, etc.
That's all fine, but I'm searching for availability and it isn't.
P.S.
The soft clip is very easy to add top-side and then the overload stopper with the zeners can go trackside right under the 10k input load. So, it doesn't matter if the PCB has dedicated spots for these or not. But, they don't fit existential PCB, since that is not solid. So, there is a slight problem.
P.P.S.
The DIYab amp project also had a lot of trouble in getting available boards. It is still on existential PCB at this time, but a more solid form is scheduled for about 6 weeks from now. Let's go a bit faster than that, just for sport.

Last edited by danielwritesbac; 17th February 2012 at 06:24 AM.
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Old 17th February 2012, 06:41 AM   #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeymoose View Post
but you seem to contrdict yourself (somewhat)
I think that there is a misunderstood maybe my English.. It is obvious that your approach is very different and most complete when comparing with other ones. What I need was an amplifier pcb somewhat make you deal with bare amplifier itself, just like those ones I had struggle with. This is my approach and nothing to do with different ones.

Last edited by terranigma; 17th February 2012 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 17th February 2012, 10:04 PM   #678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielwritesbac View Post
Since I couldn't possibly answer no, the answer is yes (to quality input). The concept that I just can't seem to explain (but this is not your fault at all), is that you don't want your system artificially topped out. I think that you don't want it to sound loud unless it really is. You want to remove compression, hard sound, limiting, blare, distortion, clipping and noise from the source in order to do something better instead: Back in the old days, recordings were quite dynamic and the vacuum tube power amplifier would apply soft clip rarely and only as needed; so, when it wasn't at the top, all other music information is presented with concert realism.
Yes, you seem well describe my point of view. I'm also a purist. I like simple but effective solutions. I think that Circlophone has cured what all the things suffered and vastly struggled with thermal tracking, crossover distortion and biasing issues with BJTs. These are huge problems in solid state audio business. Maybe that's the why you feel necessary to mention "triode sound" of your Circlophone.

I have also discovered that pre-eighties recordings are showing their real qualities easily. Loose representation that appeared as vocals and instruments are on same layer has gone and new layers added to representation. Despite my variety of experiments, I count myself as being at very early stage.

Quote:
Alternative answer: The cost for 4 diodes and 3 resistors to nicely accommodate a decently recorded track, probably costs less than just one track. At least I can say that it is worth the price.
My concern was totally out of cost. I wasn't sure about that degrade something that I already have while trying to gain something that I never need for. Your comments are fair enough for decide what to do.

Quote:
I like your upgraded "RF resistant" model that was based on a "known good" (wakibaki) and has been performing so very well and reviewed to do so. I greatly favor all of that, because what I need at this time is a nice sturdy baseline.
Actually It is not that "RF resistant" as I faced with my tests so far. Still some RF noise interfering to my gear. I'm still investigating the reason of my first build. One of something to do is closely imitating that one.

It would be an outstanding success if could deal with my terrific environmental RFI noise. Idea of avoiding volume pot and connecting my DAC's analogue pins directly to amp requires such quietness. I have read a document that shared one topics here that describing why software volume control degrades dynamic range of recordings. But I'm not sure that it is true with latest digitally attenuated dac chips like mine (AK4396). I should decide it for myself.
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Old 17th February 2012, 11:29 PM   #679
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This clipper is of zero direct relevance to a circlophone,
would "work" or distort terribly for any LTP front end.
It has become a distraction, lost all touch with the OP.
Sorry, I didn't foresee this result before I tacked it onto
one of my schematics.

I have posts of questionable relevance here that I would
defend as quite relevant. This clipper wasn't one of them.
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Old 18th February 2012, 07:05 AM   #680
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Default Effects Box

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Originally Posted by kenpeter View Post
This clipper is of zero direct relevance to a circlophone, would "work" or distort terribly for any LTP front end. It has become a distraction, lost all touch with the OP. Sorry, I didn't foresee this result before I tacked it onto one of my schematics. I have posts of questionable relevance here that I would defend as quite relevant. This clipper wasn't one of them.
As an effects box, it is a highly malleable harmonics adjustment device that could be set to benefit Television/MP4/AAC/HDradio and the Realtek sound chip or anything else that could use a fresh little harmonics boost. And 20 cents is still a bargain price for a job that's impossible to do with an eq.
The only other thing I have to say about it is:
Thank you.
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