I want to build an AKSA 55 or 100 Watt amplifier. I would consider myself a novice solderer. I've put a few of the small robotics kits together, and the AKSA PCBs look a lot larger than those 
Will a less than perfect solder sound worse than a professionally soldered joint? Or is all that matters whether or not electrical contact is made?
Would a straight 60/40 lead solder be good for audio work? I don't want to start a whole debate on the sound of silver as I inadvertently did on another board; I'm just wondering if the 60/40 mix is acceptable for audio work.
Also I've heard that electronics periodically need to be re-soldered. Why is this? I'm assuming this is because of the oxidation of the lead tin alloy not because of physical degredation, but I'm not certain.
Thanks in advance for any help
Will a less than perfect solder sound worse than a professionally soldered joint? Or is all that matters whether or not electrical contact is made?
Would a straight 60/40 lead solder be good for audio work? I don't want to start a whole debate on the sound of silver as I inadvertently did on another board; I'm just wondering if the 60/40 mix is acceptable for audio work.
Also I've heard that electronics periodically need to be re-soldered. Why is this? I'm assuming this is because of the oxidation of the lead tin alloy not because of physical degredation, but I'm not certain.
Thanks in advance for any help
Hi,
Hardly anyone can teach you how to solder...this comes with many hours of practice.
So, why not do just that before you embark on a more serious project?
A decent soldering iron ususally helps big time in getting it right too...
Don't worry about that for the time being...it's a once every other ten years thing that only us anally retentive purists consider doing anyways and usually accompanies some upgrades of components left and right in the process...
Cheers and enjoy,
Hardly anyone can teach you how to solder...this comes with many hours of practice.
So, why not do just that before you embark on a more serious project?
A decent soldering iron ususally helps big time in getting it right too...
Don't worry about that for the time being...it's a once every other ten years thing that only us anally retentive purists consider doing anyways and usually accompanies some upgrades of components left and right in the process...
Cheers and enjoy,
SY said:
63/37 type solder is even nicer because it has the lowest melting temperature ~600 deg F. Even more important, because it is eutectic, when it is cooling it has no plastic state - it goes straight from liquid to solid so there much less chance of making a bad joint if it is disturbed while setting. It looks nicer too - makes a much more shiny joint than 60/40 stuff.
What do I use? 60/40
also I have been playing with some lead-free stuff but the flux in it is a bit weak and it needs a tip of about 800 deg F to melt easily. Makes ok but bad-looking joints.
This is only necessary if you have problems. Electronic gear with especiially temperature variations can experience stress in the solder joints. This can happen faster if the part when it was new had oxidized pins (old parts on the shelf which are soldered in).Corn-Picker said:
The general apply: If it ain't broken, don't fix it.
Every time you heat up a solder joint you degrade especially the pcb but also the part itself.
Most problems has thick pins and/or heavy parts.
Also when you solder, don't forget to heat up sufficiently. A newbie error is fears the harm the part by heat. Only certain film caps are sensitive, like polystyrene.
BTW: What is hiatus? (sinbin halo)
I find that Multicore Savbit (60Lead/38Tin/2Copper) tins very well, is long term reliable, and as has been discussed previously on this forum is the best sounding of the lead based alloys.
To make good solder joints, good solder (see above), a good solder sponge and a good vari-temp solder station are required.
For practice, find an old TV pcb and practice re-soldering until you get it right.
If the components are clinced down onto the pcb, any movement is not an issue, and in my experience eutectic solder sounds wrong.
Multicore make 96S solder (96Tin/4Silver) and this sounds the best that I have heard, but is difficult to get right and is expensive.
Big tip - clean the solder with tissue and solvent to remove any oxides on the surface of the solder wire before soldering operations - NASA techniques as I was taught in the early 80's.
Eric.
To make good solder joints, good solder (see above), a good solder sponge and a good vari-temp solder station are required.
For practice, find an old TV pcb and practice re-soldering until you get it right.
If the components are clinced down onto the pcb, any movement is not an issue, and in my experience eutectic solder sounds wrong.
Multicore make 96S solder (96Tin/4Silver) and this sounds the best that I have heard, but is difficult to get right and is expensive.
Big tip - clean the solder with tissue and solvent to remove any oxides on the surface of the solder wire before soldering operations - NASA techniques as I was taught in the early 80's.
Eric.
Lots of good advice in the thread Peter linked to. The best way to get good at soldering is to practice - a lot.
I've been using this 96% tin/4% silver solder exclusively for over 3 years now. It started when I needed some lead-free solder for a Tesla Coil capacitor, and RS was the only place around. After a couple thousand solder joints one weekend (not PCB!), I had gotten the hang of it. This is the stuff I use, despite its cost, for almost everything: RS cat# 64-026. It's also available in .031" diameter. I explicitly recall Fred D recommending it in some thread, though I no longer recall if it was sarcastic or not (it was in one of those long, drawn out sound of "X" arguments).
Good luck,
Mark
I've been using this 96% tin/4% silver solder exclusively for over 3 years now. It started when I needed some lead-free solder for a Tesla Coil capacitor, and RS was the only place around. After a couple thousand solder joints one weekend (not PCB!), I had gotten the hang of it. This is the stuff I use, despite its cost, for almost everything: RS cat# 64-026. It's also available in .031" diameter. I explicitly recall Fred D recommending it in some thread, though I no longer recall if it was sarcastic or not (it was in one of those long, drawn out sound of "X" arguments).
Good luck,
Mark
To answer your question.... YES, it does make a difference in sound. That's a pureist point of view though and we all know that the pureists live on Pluto.
A lot of very good information but I suggest whatever solder you get you need to get good heat transfer between parts and pads. You will see the solder flow into all knids of places that you wouldn't think it would but it follows heat. I use a good liquid flux and clean it with MEK or Acetone. 99% Isopropol alcohol works OK too. If the joint isn't shiney, drop a small drop of liquid flux and reheat but just enough that the "ball" of solder reheats and that's all. Then clean again. 60/40 solder will work fine for us "Earthlings" LOLOL
Good luck
Chris
A lot of very good information but I suggest whatever solder you get you need to get good heat transfer between parts and pads. You will see the solder flow into all knids of places that you wouldn't think it would but it follows heat. I use a good liquid flux and clean it with MEK or Acetone. 99% Isopropol alcohol works OK too. If the joint isn't shiney, drop a small drop of liquid flux and reheat but just enough that the "ball" of solder reheats and that's all. Then clean again. 60/40 solder will work fine for us "Earthlings" LOLOL
Good luck
Chris
I have used the 96tin/4silver solder. I am glad to hear that it provides us with the best sound. By the way, I also often use 60lead/40tin solder with the approximately same results. In my opinion, with respect to the resulting sound, the important thing is making the good quality of physical and electrical connection between component lead and base metal, and using the solder material of good purity whatever it is.mrfeedback said:
Diode said:
I use one of two Multicore types (other brands will be similar). One is called Savbit, that's a eutectic 63/37 with a trace of copper to protect the bit. The other is similar with about 2% silver for use when soldering silver or silver plated wire.
I'm not convinced it makes enough of a difference to get that anal about it, especially until your joints are mil-spec.
Without being anal or anything, I have found solders to sound surprisingly different.
60/38/2Cu is quite ok, 96S is rather better to my ears, and LMP drives me out of the room real quick.
On initial listening 96S might seem a little dullish sounding but on closer listening more detail is revealed compared to Savbit or 60/40, and when going back, the lead/tin solders sound wrong, and coloured.
LMP 60/38/2Silver initially sounds bright and detailed, but on extended listening I find it wrongly falsely bright/clangy, and the overall sound drives me up the wall.
Savbit is a cheap and a good compromise, and 96S the best/most pleasant in my experience.
This subject has been discussed previously and the concensus was in accord with my findings.
One member used lengths of solder wire as interconnect wires, and found these same preferences.
Eric.
60/38/2Cu is quite ok, 96S is rather better to my ears, and LMP drives me out of the room real quick.
On initial listening 96S might seem a little dullish sounding but on closer listening more detail is revealed compared to Savbit or 60/40, and when going back, the lead/tin solders sound wrong, and coloured.
LMP 60/38/2Silver initially sounds bright and detailed, but on extended listening I find it wrongly falsely bright/clangy, and the overall sound drives me up the wall.
Savbit is a cheap and a good compromise, and 96S the best/most pleasant in my experience.
This subject has been discussed previously and the concensus was in accord with my findings.
One member used lengths of solder wire as interconnect wires, and found these same preferences.
Eric.
Hey Eric,
I agree with you but you must admit that there is only about 2% of the worlds population who can really hear differences that 98% of us can't. There are about 98% of "pureists" that "think" they can hear something and the other 2% of those..... WELLLLLLL...... Maybe with the right combination of gear can maybe 5% more of us hear any difference. Can I hear .009% THD? UHHH-NO! Can I hear .01%? Probably not. Can I hear 1% Yeah, probably.... but only under extreme conditions. Can I hear a difference in solder? Not unless there is a bad joint and it is causing niose or something. I'm getting to the age that the only things I care about are QUIET, RESPONSIVE, and CLEAN. No hiss, hum and lots of headroom. When a car blows up in a movie, I don't want the pictures on the wall to buzz lightly and the speaker to rumble with distortion. I want the BOOOOOM and the pictures to come off the wall I want to feel the bass, not be annoyed by a pathetic speaker and crappy amp. When there is a silent scene, I DO NOT want to hear SHHHHHHH or HUMMMMMMMMMMM!
Solder doesn't take care of that so much..... DESIGN does........
Best wishes,
Chris
I agree with you but you must admit that there is only about 2% of the worlds population who can really hear differences that 98% of us can't. There are about 98% of "pureists" that "think" they can hear something and the other 2% of those..... WELLLLLLL...... Maybe with the right combination of gear can maybe 5% more of us hear any difference. Can I hear .009% THD? UHHH-NO! Can I hear .01%? Probably not. Can I hear 1% Yeah, probably.... but only under extreme conditions. Can I hear a difference in solder? Not unless there is a bad joint and it is causing niose or something. I'm getting to the age that the only things I care about are QUIET, RESPONSIVE, and CLEAN. No hiss, hum and lots of headroom. When a car blows up in a movie, I don't want the pictures on the wall to buzz lightly and the speaker to rumble with distortion. I want the BOOOOOM and the pictures to come off the wall
I want to feel the bass, not be annoyed by a pathetic speaker and crappy amp. When there is a silent scene, I DO NOT want to hear SHHHHHHH or HUMMMMMMMMMMM! Solder doesn't take care of that so much..... DESIGN does........Best wishes,
Chris
Hi Corn-Picker,
My AKSA 55 amp kit came complete with solder, so you don't need to worry. Whatever Hugh supplied works well giving a nice clean joint with a shiny finish.
I have done a few amps now and I consider the AKSA PCB to be best I have worked on. Although the PCB is reasonably compact Hugh has desgined it with large pads, wide tracks and a solder mask. I was very pleased with the results and I am fussy.
Tha AKSA was my first amp and I think it is still the best.
My AKSA 55 amp kit came complete with solder, so you don't need to worry. Whatever Hugh supplied works well giving a nice clean joint with a shiny finish.
I have done a few amps now and I consider the AKSA PCB to be best I have worked on. Although the PCB is reasonably compact Hugh has desgined it with large pads, wide tracks and a solder mask. I was very pleased with the results and I am fussy.
Tha AKSA was my first amp and I think it is still the best.
As earlier stated, the Aksa comes with solder that works just fine.
Don't worry about the solder!!! Practise will give you a good solder joint as you can see it. Soldering is YES/NO. There isn't enough solder in a joint to alter the sound. But a NO solder joint with the fanciest solder will give a very dissapointing result.
Just do it!!!!! Don't worry!!!!
The Aksa is a splendid amplifier that puts many high priced amps to shame....
Ah, get a magnifying glass and examine each joint after you do it.
There is no better, or easier, quality control......
Don't worry about the solder!!! Practise will give you a good solder joint as you can see it. Soldering is YES/NO. There isn't enough solder in a joint to alter the sound. But a NO solder joint with the fanciest solder will give a very dissapointing result.
Just do it!!!!! Don't worry!!!!
The Aksa is a splendid amplifier that puts many high priced amps to shame....
Ah, get a magnifying glass and examine each joint after you do it.
There is no better, or easier, quality control......
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.