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-   -   Groner Triple (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/188143-groner-triple.html)

dadod 30th April 2011 03:20 PM

Groner Triple
 
1 Attachment(s)
Some time ago I noticed comments on D.Self book from Samuel Groner.
The part I would like to show now was about Triple output stage.

http://www.sg-acoustics.ch/analogue_...n_comments.pdf
It was this part of explanation that intrigued me to simulate an amp with this triple, but with bootstrapped CCS.

Depending on saturation characteristics of I2 and I3 this configuration
will yeld higher output swing compared to other triplr output stages.
For best efficiency these current sources could be replaced with bootstrapped
resistor loads, although this might result in somewhat reduced bias stability
with unregulated power supplies.

here is Groner triple as in his text.

dadod 30th April 2011 03:33 PM

Amp with Groner Triple
 
6 Attachment(s)
Simulation result.

distortion 1kHz 0.000012%
distortion 10kHz 0.000086%
distortion 20kHz 0.000318%

I attached circuit diagram, FFT, OLG, CLG, square wave on 8ohm and 8ohm//2uF

I had to add C19 an C22. Without them square wave diagram had ringing and overshoots.
It did not influence Opel Loop Gain.
J3 and J4 are constant current sources.
dado

lineup 30th April 2011 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadod (Post 2556821)
Simulation result.

distortion 1kHz 0.000012%
distortion 10kHz 0.000086%
distortion 20kHz 0.000318%

How does this compare to for example one triple darlington output stage?
This is an output design I'd like to investigate.

CBS240 30th April 2011 08:36 PM

Looks like a double diamond buffer to me. A good circuit concept thats been around for quite a while. I like the bootstrap J-fet CCSs. J-fets make the best CCS don't you think?:)

dadod 30th April 2011 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lineup (Post 2556860)
How does this compare to for example one triple darlington output stage?
This is an output design I'd like to investigate.

lineup,
It is very similar with triple EF. If you like to read more about this Groner triple follow the link I put in the first post.
What I did is just bootstrapp and FET CCS.
To know real difference soundwise it will be necessary to bild this amp.
dado

dadod 30th April 2011 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBS240 (Post 2557085)
Looks like a double diamond buffer to me. A good circuit concept thats been around for quite a while. I like the bootstrap J-fet CCSs. J-fets make the best CCS don't you think?:)

In simulation I used 2N3819, but in real bild I would use Supertex DN3135 or DN2535 high voltage vertical deplation mode DMOS fets excellent for CCS. I could not find spice model(for LTspice) for this FET.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/data...x/DN3135NW.pdf
dado

lineup 30th April 2011 09:34 PM

Supertex has spice models for download:
Supertex - SPICE Models

dimitri 30th April 2011 10:09 PM

Groner Triple or
 
Phoenix Triple?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid...ml#post2313409

ostripper 1st May 2011 12:26 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Yes , I am hours (or days) away from some sort of triple. :) Myself, B. Cordell, and many others discussed a similar type of circuit : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid...-pointers.html

I never got around to actually build it , but this now changes. I need a good sub amp :eek: . I have the PCB almost designed (below) and the cascoded luxman or blameless modules to hook to the triple. After seeing this groner/phoenix configuration , I feed "bold" with my couple square inches of PCB "real estate".
To have the required "overkill" :D , I will use ksa/c 1381/3503 , njw0281/0302 , njw21193-4 (pre/driver/main OP)
OS

dimitri 1st May 2011 12:44 AM

Awaiting your results ;)


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