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Old 22nd April 2011, 01:25 AM   #11
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Default Yes, i was thinking this way..but i have to discuss this with Alex

also, if we use heavy electrolitic condensers (supply on board) them i do think it will be heavy to let all the weigth supported by power transistor leads...because of condensers i do think we may need some spacers, some supporting extructure to hold the whole thing in place.

I have to think about...i am having doubts and i will send these doubts to Alex mm to listen what he think about.

Well...this is just a prototype....board may chance in order to accept modifications i will sure make... the schematic now a days is one..the layout is different and the prototype is also different..there are three amplifiers now a days.. one is the one shown by the schematic, the other is in the layout and the third one are real values applied into the prototype board.

I will do it slowly, as i have time to do that...delivery is promissed for July, so i can do it even before July, but i can go slow as my promisse, the dead line is July.

There is something i am not happy in the VAS that i will change..also a peak in 40 hertz that i need to change too..... and this does not appear in simulators or scope..but listening i can feel..alike Precision 1, this one has a peak at 40 hertz (around that frequency and i do not know why or how)

regards,

Carlos
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Old 22nd April 2011, 01:45 AM   #12
Bigun is offline Bigun  Canada
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I see you have an EF buffered VAS. I had thought you didn't like this because at clipping you fry the VAS device or you have to put a big resistor in the collector which you said crippled the sound ?

If I remember my 'D Self' this buffer is called 'beta enhancer' and increases the OLG of the VAS so that Cdom can do more to linearize it. Another option is to Cascode the VAS.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 08:02 AM   #13
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Default Yes....that resistor is a pain..... i will manage to find a way to remove

it despite it is really needed to avoid damaged caused by misuse of my beloved amplifiers.

I had some monster audiophile that used to overdrive the amplifier very badly.... 0.5 percent of the builders had first VAS killed... then i had three main options (there are many others... these are the most obvious and less creative solutions)... to install higher resistances into the emitter, to include a resistance to the colector or to install criminal limiter capturing voltage developed over the second VAS emitter resistance.

This one is a political solution, much more acceptable for our community, despite it is not something i like.

To have people building my amplifiers, from time to time i have to introduce modifications folks believes are good, sometimes different from my own beliefs, but acceptable to them as a good solution.

If you come to see my own amplifiers, the ones i use to listen, you will not find this resistance...i do prefer to accept the risk to have a fried first VAS then to have reduction in audio quality..... but this is inside my own home...my own things...my own problem...my own decision.... for the community i have to produce reliable amplifiers.

Some guys are not satisfied to use the amplifier inside their limits.... some folks goes and overdrive them...i had one guy that installed a preamplifier with 6 volts RMS output when the MKII (previous one) was prepared to 750 milivolts PEAK into the input...... another one injected 25 kilohertz, square wave, 3 volts RMS into the input after i said this frequency use to unstabilize the model ES (first one from the Blame series)...... the real problem bigun, is not that they are crazy...the real problem is that they publish the first VAS was fried... and without explain clearly they have forced above the limits, they send shame to the amplifiers..this generates panic, people feel the amplifier unsafe.

I said...use 350 watts power transformer as a power limiting factor to the amplifier.... i was using only two pairs to reduce folks cost to produce a nice amplifier.... and if someone decide to install a 1Kw transformer would fried the unit.... do you know what someone that is studying to be an engineer did?.... he installed a stronger transformer...when i said this could kill the amplifier.... i was lucky he could not kill the amplifier because the supply voltage dropped, or the one would be here complained the amplifier had output transistors fried.... and all my warning would be forgoten..what would result?

- " The Blame fried! " .... or worse.... " The Blame fries! "

It is alike to say that someone had the car smashed, without explain that a Tiger war tank passed over the car smashing it...if not well explained, people think the car is weak... when in the reality an automobile was not made to have a Tiger war tank above its roof.

That resistance can be substituted by a smaller one or a short if needed... a wire jumper can go into that place if the one understand the sonic advantage this can result...so...it is there but can be removed anytime.

First Wankel engines could reach a very high RPM, and this resulted in lubrication problem and engine blow out...the first solution was to limit the engine RPM, that solution i call "academic".... and them several horsepower was lost, when reached the top rpm the engine started to fail, with fuel injection flow cutted... when changing gears you had losses in aceleration... then they decide to overpressurize the oil and to produce another lubrication system (removed that damn resistance and to increase the transistor power ratio)...then Wankel engines become great.... the limiting applied to the Wankel engine was analog to the VI limiters i hate the most..untollerable thing i had to use twice because academics opened their mouth to spread panic into the community.

Sadly people use to be tuned to possible failures, a kind of panic disorder, you can have hundreds coming to the forum to say the amplifier sounds lovely, that they are happy and satisfied, but, if only one come to say had failure, them people will start to loss confidence.... hundreds are erased and one turn the main reviewer..it is interesting how this happens... and some guys use this to show themselves, as they love to point other guy's supposed mistakes to be in a leadership position...very annoying guys to the community, they do not want to help anybody but themselves....it is fast to burn an amplifier image dear Bigun..one came and said the amplifier should be called Dx Flame in the place of Dx Blame...so, you see how bad guys works driven by smaller feelings.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 27th April 2011, 09:26 PM   #14
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Default I will use these heatsinks...i hope they will be good

I do think to test with 500 watts RMS for a couple of minutes may result fine..... i have the obligation to produce 500 watts RMS, at 4 ohms, with distortion smaller than 0.004% THD.... this means that i can play music at 250 watts average and test it continuous for the time heatsinks reach 80 degrées centigrades.

Well...the prototype already assembled using 4 output pairs have smaller heatsinks and are showing me these ones may work for music.

Better to be 2 times this size to the MAKO..but maybe good to the MKIII.

I will use these plastic diodes as heat sensor to control the stand by bias.... will be less than 3 miliamperes to each power transistor.

I am having fun...i like to check these things..will this result enougth?.... i do think will be good for music...but for continuous tones will overheat.

Boys...these heatsinks and power transistors are for one channel only.... to stereo i have to double geatsink size or much more than that... maybe a couple of fan will be the solution..operating 5 to 8 volts they do not make too much noise .

regards,

Carlos
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File Type: jpg Heatsinks to 500 peak and 250 watts rms continuous.JPG (284.8 KB, 1215 views)
File Type: jpg They should be good enougth.jpg (176.9 KB, 1168 views)
File Type: jpg Thermal sensor.jpg (69.4 KB, 1115 views)
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Old 28th April 2011, 01:27 PM   #15
alex mm is offline alex mm  Romania
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Default PCB corrected rail supply .....

As usual , my first printed circuit is wrong ,or missing something, has missing supply of plus and minus from control circuit.So I attach the corrected circuit .
Regards Alex.
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Old 28th April 2011, 01:50 PM   #16
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Default Great dear Alex mm ... please, send me Gerbers to my email adress

This will go to production very soon.

I could not find anything wrong in the prototype, and fine tuning of some parts i can give these informations to builders, as an upgrade, in the future.

Do not post here these Gerbers for a while..will provide only to forum management if they ask for..this gonna be produced in another forum for a while.

regards,

Carlos
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Old 30th April 2011, 09:08 AM   #17
Art M is offline Art M  United States
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Default Profit

Quote:
Originally Posted by destroyer X View Post

"also boards will be produces in the diysmps forum too..and sold there with a very small profit"

"So, everybody that will buy must know 10 percent are included above the cost price..."

"Dx Corporation International World Wide, DIY enterprise"

regards,

Carlos
This type of activity does not strike me as being in the Spirit of DIY. Collecting above the cost is called Profit. Hopefully this activity will be moved into the Vendor Forum.
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Old 30th April 2011, 12:26 PM   #18
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Default There's no problem about that my dear..the ones understand this way

can have boards without this 10 percent.... and this can be understood as discount from the "wanted" price or absolute real cost price.

If you be attention to my history inside this forum you will understand clearly that i have never sold anything...so...your understanding about me seems to be mistake....you almost have just landed, you should know (as respect) people that is working for free for this forum in a better way and not to post that 1 added to 1 result 2 because sometimes this is not precise...if one (1) is a man and other (1) is a woman..then 1 plus 1 can be 3, 4, 5 or more (got it?.... a flexible thinking... the family generation make one more one result more than 2).

I mean...you may dislike the way i am doing... and will smile to others that have 25 percent included in the "cost price".... you will buy from these ones...will be happy... in the reality..... was fooled..... some guys did that in the past... some of them was discovered with their hands on the cake. (ahahahahah!)

Boards will be offered, since your complain, into the absolute cost price, and manufacturer documents proven the cost will be presented.... people will be asked to donate 10 percent if they want to help the further development of this enterprise of make people happy.

This percentual, and much more than that is usually included into the price..no one practice the real precise cost as there are folks that give up and you will face a 100 boards order, paying 100 boards price, when only 80 guys really used pay pall and send you the money...there are always losses to the ones manage these things.

Also you have included taxes everywhere.... included into the manufacturer cost too... shipment cost too.... your country has taxes everywhere, included in everything.

The way you have is to produce by yourself...then you will pay only the taxes for the board manufacturer, etching product manufacturer, drilling bits manufacturer and also shipment costs of this order to your home.

This kind of analisis you made..... money added is profit... is not really precise...it is a very poor way of understanding things.

Others will not be honest..will not say and will increase price from you and will you be happy this way?

You are saying that designer cannot have a couple of free boards free, after they have worked hard for your pleasure and enjoyment... seems not very fair from you, my dear, to be thinking this way.... i do think you may be able to have a better understanding of these things and prefere honest people than to face the ones introduce fake costs over the cost price... doing this way, in the place to be clear and honest, will be fooling others this way.

There are costs when we create amplifiers... we work hard for that... everyone that does that uses a lot of family time to do this...some transistors are burned doing tests to be sure you will not burn yours at home... we have to work hard producing layout, this takes time..needs software and they have cost..we use electricity, solder, boards, parts and so on.... so.... there are costs.... if you have made any amplifier you may know that very well.... and usually, 5 or 10 percent does not cover costs we have doing that.... seems we should work for free to your enjoyment and also pay for that for your enjoyment....hmmmm.... strange mind....i am glad to know a different way of thinking.

I am asking you to think about that twice.... i will not continue this conversation as i feel it deeply sad to see people thinking in such way.... so.... i will not continue this conversation...you said, uncle charlie answered and this is the end of this subject (to me)

regards,

Carlos
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Last edited by destroyer X; 30th April 2011 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 1st May 2011, 07:35 AM   #19
Art M is offline Art M  United States
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Default High Chuckles

Quote:
destroyer X: There's no problem about that my dear..the ones understand this way
You certainly sound very confused. I have no intention of being "dear" with you.
Better save that pillow talk for another Forum.

Quote:
destroyer X: your understanding about me seems to be mistake....you almost have just landed
I may have "just landed", but curiously, I donated money to this site for my landing, how about you, just squatting ?

Quote:
destroyer X: you should know (as respect) people that is working for free for this forum
I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the talented people on this site.Seems you have forgotten respect for your elders? That's me.

Quote:
destroyer X:if one (1) is a man and other (1) is a woman..then 1 plus 1 can be 3, 4, 5 or more (got it?
No I don't get it? I sincerely hope someone is checking your calculations ?

Quote:
destroyer X:you may dislike the way i am doing... and will smile to others that have 25 percent included in the "cost price".... you will buy from these ones...will be happy... in the reality..... was fooled
At this point, I am trying to not get fooled by you.

Quote:
destroyer X: Boards will be offered, since your complain, into the absolute cost price
Complaint, suggestion or discussion, I am glad to hear that you are going to fly right.


Quote:
destroyer X:This kind of analisis you made..... money added is profit... is not really precise...it is a very poor way of understanding things.
I do appreciate your efforts to set me right, but based on your confusing world view, I will have to decline.

Quote:
destroyer X:You are saying that designer cannot have a couple of free boards free, after they have worked hard for your pleasure and enjoyment... seems not very fair from you, my dear, to be thinking this way
That is really offensive, stating that I said or suggested " that designer cannot have a couple of free boards free". And there you go on with that "dear" crap again. I am not part of your Cult, so please save that personalized litany for others.

Quote:
destroyer X: i will not continue this conversation as i feel it deeply sad to see people thinking in such way
Your way or no way. Heard that one before attributed to delusions of grandeur.

I was gonna leave it alone, I swear, but repartee with " Chuckles " is way too much fun..........
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Old 1st May 2011, 07:46 AM   #20
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Default Build a Dx amplifier folks, and be happy.

There are several good designs in this forum, some of them offer boards, others offer you layout to etch at your home and also boards...some of them offer you schematic only..... do not matter the one you choice..build a DIY amplifier for your entertainment and pleasure.

About others, the ones wants to bother.... use the ignore button and go ahead.

C'a marche!

regards,

Carlos
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