My theory on the termination issue is this:
Interference works by induction. Any induced noise signal will have a proportionnally larger effect on a low power signal compared to a high power signal.
This may also explain the good results people obtain with transformers. The EMI/RFI induced problems are not powerful enough into 600 Ohms.
In addition to that yes there is the issue of line reflection induced HF oscillations in hi speed op amps that eventually modulate down into the audio band.
MBK
Interference works by induction. Any induced noise signal will have a proportionnally larger effect on a low power signal compared to a high power signal.
This may also explain the good results people obtain with transformers. The EMI/RFI induced problems are not powerful enough into 600 Ohms.
In addition to that yes there is the issue of line reflection induced HF oscillations in hi speed op amps that eventually modulate down into the audio band.
MBK
Pavel,
One more thought here. How did you connect the BUF634's for the balanced interconnection? Cross-coupled with another opamp?
To me it seems that using a termination resistor on the input of a balanced interconnect pretty much cancels the effects of going balanced in the first place. CMRR is going to be really bad this way.
Cheers
/Magnus
One more thought here. How did you connect the BUF634's for the balanced interconnection? Cross-coupled with another opamp?
To me it seems that using a termination resistor on the input of a balanced interconnect pretty much cancels the effects of going balanced in the first place. CMRR is going to be really bad this way.
Cheers
/Magnus
Upupa,
Just looking at your first post,
I reside in Aust (land of Halcro) and have seen and heard first hand the mentality of Pass and Halcro.
Both approaches are clever and have their strengths.
What I admire about the Pass way is that it challenges the notion of engineered technical superiority and the assumptions held by taking on an almost physics solution with a much wider perspective than say text book circuit theory.
The Pass diy projects don't claim to be perfect and Pass commerical product has a number of patents like Halcro.
It is interesting that earlier Pass approaches were triumphs of technical excellence based on sales and market feedback and the more recent offerings 25-30 years on are triumphs of sonic excellence.
I also note Halcro has dropped promotion of the lowest distortion in their advertising and is moving quickly into the home theatre market, the road to Audio Hell.
macka
Just looking at your first post,
I reside in Aust (land of Halcro) and have seen and heard first hand the mentality of Pass and Halcro.
Both approaches are clever and have their strengths.
What I admire about the Pass way is that it challenges the notion of engineered technical superiority and the assumptions held by taking on an almost physics solution with a much wider perspective than say text book circuit theory.
The Pass diy projects don't claim to be perfect and Pass commerical product has a number of patents like Halcro.
It is interesting that earlier Pass approaches were triumphs of technical excellence based on sales and market feedback and the more recent offerings 25-30 years on are triumphs of sonic excellence.
I also note Halcro has dropped promotion of the lowest distortion in their advertising and is moving quickly into the home theatre market, the road to Audio Hell.
macka
Hello boys , wake up for new morning please!
Do you remember, that to reproduce audio, we need one speaker, or some kind or transducer, and this one is really a problem.
Yes, i know this is the Solid State forum.
But it seems some guys is alike young boys closed in the WC thinking deep and making rigth hand gimnastic, looking to Playboy magazine...when..... very near him, some girl with the same lonely problem....could you capture What i mean.... the menthal masturb.....
Your amplifiers, since eighties, are better than the speakers can be, this do not means to forget the amplifiers, no no no....have to increase and research...but maybe some attention to the entire system can be usefull.
So, one transistor in class A...one good headphone....there's something to beat.
Please, some reflection related that please....or...make me some good help.
Tell me that speakers are not the trouble.... when distorting 0,5 percent when amplifier is distorting 0.002 percent..... what is the resultant?
Remember respectable man, the more you know, the more confused can be to accept easy solutions.
One of the first lessons we learned in Technical level schools is that the quality resultant is the same of the worst equipment inside some chain.... or even worst than the worst one.
What i want?.... please, take some time to research, as you can do better than i can, and i am doing hard, my home is a mass because of that...trying some plastic panel as drivers...making stupid things...i have not good knowledge.
But everyone seems to be "out or earth", in a deep illusion, travelling to "andromeda"...please brigth man, return to earth!.
We have transducer problems here!
regards,
Carlos
Do you remember, that to reproduce audio, we need one speaker, or some kind or transducer, and this one is really a problem.
Yes, i know this is the Solid State forum.
But it seems some guys is alike young boys closed in the WC thinking deep and making rigth hand gimnastic, looking to Playboy magazine...when..... very near him, some girl with the same lonely problem....could you capture What i mean.... the menthal masturb.....
Your amplifiers, since eighties, are better than the speakers can be, this do not means to forget the amplifiers, no no no....have to increase and research...but maybe some attention to the entire system can be usefull.
So, one transistor in class A...one good headphone....there's something to beat.
Please, some reflection related that please....or...make me some good help.
Tell me that speakers are not the trouble.... when distorting 0,5 percent when amplifier is distorting 0.002 percent..... what is the resultant?
Remember respectable man, the more you know, the more confused can be to accept easy solutions.
One of the first lessons we learned in Technical level schools is that the quality resultant is the same of the worst equipment inside some chain.... or even worst than the worst one.
What i want?.... please, take some time to research, as you can do better than i can, and i am doing hard, my home is a mass because of that...trying some plastic panel as drivers...making stupid things...i have not good knowledge.
But everyone seems to be "out or earth", in a deep illusion, travelling to "andromeda"...please brigth man, return to earth!.
We have transducer problems here!
regards,
Carlos
Hello Huston!, mission will be aborted, problems!
When we arrive we found our Russian friend with a very strange expression in his face.... as controlling something internal making big strength inside him....some speciall gases are filling the air, are you hearing Houston?.... please , a ten four!
Go ahead Spatial station!, all scientists here to give a good solution to that problem, what the computers are informing?.... roger!
-Hello Houston, my Russian friend, Excremewsky Bostolowski is turning alike a grape, he is not well!, his face is changing natural collor....he is telling and repeating, zecond left doorrrr at Kremlim!... send me dzecond left doorrr!
Houston again:
- What the computers are informing?
Cyrus space station again:
- Do not make sense for us, computer said that we have small rounded asteroids inside our capsule.
-Houston:
Cyrus, can you repeat message?
Cyrus space station:
Bostolloff spoke finally, our output exaust vaccuum WC is damaged since last week...our human beeing digestion results are filling the space station, those the "brown" asteroids Bostolloff told us!...please, call the higienic system responsable!
- houston:
We are terrible sorry, but we never worried about this kind of output problems, all scientist is calculating now, the possibility of the "brownies". hit your mouth when you were sleeping... roger!....
"hehe, some simple things can be important too!"....output speaker...hummmm.....needed
regards,
Carlos
When we arrive we found our Russian friend with a very strange expression in his face.... as controlling something internal making big strength inside him....some speciall gases are filling the air, are you hearing Houston?.... please , a ten four!
Go ahead Spatial station!, all scientists here to give a good solution to that problem, what the computers are informing?.... roger!
-Hello Houston, my Russian friend, Excremewsky Bostolowski is turning alike a grape, he is not well!, his face is changing natural collor....he is telling and repeating, zecond left doorrrr at Kremlim!... send me dzecond left doorrr!
Houston again:
- What the computers are informing?
Cyrus space station again:
- Do not make sense for us, computer said that we have small rounded asteroids inside our capsule.
-Houston:
Cyrus, can you repeat message?
Cyrus space station:
Bostolloff spoke finally, our output exaust vaccuum WC is damaged since last week...our human beeing digestion results are filling the space station, those the "brown" asteroids Bostolloff told us!...please, call the higienic system responsable!
- houston:
We are terrible sorry, but we never worried about this kind of output problems, all scientist is calculating now, the possibility of the "brownies". hit your mouth when you were sleeping... roger!....
"hehe, some simple things can be important too!"....output speaker...hummmm.....needed
regards,
Carlos
Carlos, I'm definitely with you here and I think your little analogy was quite good...
In fact, most of the so-called "high-end" speakers and what not have distortion in the 5-30% range! Personally I only use pro sound speakers, preferably JBL (when I can afford), Beyma, B&C, Fane etc which have low distortion, awesome dynamics and a clarity and crispness that is unparalelled by any little 5'' bookshelf speaker. In this regard I am somewhat on my own on this forum and to be honest I do not find the "Loudspeaker" forum at diyaudio.com to be of much interest. Check out http://www.audioroundtable.com for some real speakers!
But I am also (and foremost) an electronics engineer and this is the Solid state forum... My view of an audio system is from an engineers point of view rather than some "audiophile" point of view. I see it as a chain of precision instrumentation (which is true for pro sound gear but NOT for the "audiophile" crap). Discussions like this one is valid for such a point of view.
I am a former musician and I know what real music sounds like. Now I just let the professional musicians do what they do best - provide the music. I am a professional engineer and I do what I do best - provide the equipment that allow me to enjoy their music!
Regards
/Magnus
To macka : Pass vs Halcro - I mean ( but it is only my speculation ), that when Nelson depard from Tresshold, where he must to let all his original designes, he was searching for some quite new designes and this principle of simplicity was by marketing look accurate hit. Better designs hold for offical program and waste designs to let for DIYers is genial marketing - NP have my deep admiration . Bruce Candy had " pour out " to basic research many money and result was excelent parameteres, but any simplicity. DIY " market " is not interesting by look of manufacturers, I see it here every day - absolutely most of DIYers can to build amp with price of " three hamburger " and are welcomed, when declared miracle parameters make three or five transistors .
. Bruce Candy had " pour out " to basic research many money and result was excelent parameteres, but any simplicity. DIY " market " is not interesting by look of manufacturers, I see it here every day - absolutely most of DIYers can to build amp with price of " three hamburger " and are welcomed, when declared miracle parameters make three or five transistors .
Epupa, sweetheart. ahahaha, Nelson has my deep too, hehe.
Epupa, words are not more than words, but actions have meaning, and are strong.
I use to evaluate people by their actions, not their words ...or results.
This way, have to say that you are a very interesting person, and soon i will proove you, with sensational action, my feelings.
Swedish Cheff, wonderfull avatar, the best!
All Swedish seems smart to me, as the representatives that already exist in that forum and others that are living here as lost spirits...just reading.... we have not a perfect world.
Also those Eslovaquians, tcheco-Eslovaquian, do not know the name, as people now is changing everything, Dimitri told me Russia have a lot of differences....a very big nation, easy to understand that....but politics changing things..... those people are clever, real clever.
We had some "Cartoon" movie..... with some kind bird and a cat:
"I think i saw a cat, yes, it seems a cat, it will be a cat!" or something alike..... alike the "Cartoon", the people is making some "ignore" game....."i think speaker is a problem, there's a speaker there, yes!, it seem a speaker there"
And the ball goes rolling...hehe, nice world, and crazy world.
regards,
Carlos
Epupa, words are not more than words, but actions have meaning, and are strong.
I use to evaluate people by their actions, not their words ...or results.
This way, have to say that you are a very interesting person, and soon i will proove you, with sensational action, my feelings.
Swedish Cheff, wonderfull avatar, the best!
All Swedish seems smart to me, as the representatives that already exist in that forum and others that are living here as lost spirits...just reading.... we have not a perfect world.
Also those Eslovaquians, tcheco-Eslovaquian, do not know the name, as people now is changing everything, Dimitri told me Russia have a lot of differences....a very big nation, easy to understand that....but politics changing things..... those people are clever, real clever.
We had some "Cartoon" movie..... with some kind bird and a cat:
"I think i saw a cat, yes, it seems a cat, it will be a cat!" or something alike..... alike the "Cartoon", the people is making some "ignore" game....."i think speaker is a problem, there's a speaker there, yes!, it seem a speaker there"
And the ball goes rolling...hehe, nice world, and crazy world.
regards,
Carlos
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