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Old 13th April 2011, 10:17 AM   #1
dadod is offline dadod  Croatia
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Default bootstrapsCCS+T-TMC

This is simple amplifier with bootstraped CCS for the VAS. It uses deplation mode DMOS FET from Supertex for CCS.
There is TMC bridged with resistor//capacitor. OLG is 60dB up to 30kHz.
I started it from DX-blame+TMC showed in other tread. If anybody is interested I'll give more information next. The schematic and OLG diagrasm are here.
I am not good at explaining the sound but this one is really good and I built a few , some with ordinary Miller comp. and JLH 80W I modified and showed.
dado
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File Type: jpg DADO-TMC-T_bootCCS_OLG.jpg (48.8 KB, 1641 views)
File Type: jpg amp-board.jpg (45.6 KB, 1441 views)
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Old 13th April 2011, 12:25 PM   #2
dadod is offline dadod  Croatia
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Default bootstrapsCCS+T-TMC

Constant current source made with Supertex MOSFET DN3135.
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Old 13th April 2011, 12:45 PM   #3
dadod is offline dadod  Croatia
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Default bootstrapsCCS+T-TMC

Simulated distortion:
Fourier components of V(vout)
DC component:-0.123002

Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+03 1.377e+01 1.000e+00 -0.06 0.00
2 2.000e+03 6.783e-06 4.927e-07 95.95 96.01
3 3.000e+03 5.201e-06 3.778e-07 6.34 6.40
4 4.000e+03 9.890e-07 7.183e-08 91.85 91.90
5 5.000e+03 2.363e-06 1.717e-07 9.34 9.39
6 6.000e+03 4.449e-07 3.232e-08 82.57 82.63
7 7.000e+03 2.181e-06 1.584e-07 13.33 13.39
8 8.000e+03 2.356e-07 1.711e-08 51.69 51.74
9 9.000e+03 1.716e-06 1.247e-07 16.95 17.01
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000068%

Fourier components of V(vout)
DC component:-0.123009

Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 1.000e+04 1.377e+01 1.000e+00 -0.56 0.00
2 2.000e+04 9.090e-06 6.603e-07 -171.24 -170.68
3 3.000e+04 4.880e-06 3.545e-07 86.39 86.94
4 4.000e+04 1.457e-06 1.058e-07 -145.16 -144.60
5 5.000e+04 6.730e-06 4.889e-07 141.24 141.80
6 6.000e+04 1.568e-06 1.139e-07 -111.62 -111.06
7 7.000e+04 1.283e-05 9.323e-07 155.56 156.12
8 8.000e+04 1.314e-06 9.542e-08 -93.61 -93.05
9 9.000e+04 1.662e-05 1.207e-06 162.10 162.66
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000178%

Fourier components of V(vout)
DC component:-0.123031

Harmonic Frequency Fourier Normalized Phase Normalized
Number [Hz] Component Component [degree] Phase [deg]
1 2.000e+04 1.376e+01 1.000e+00 -1.11 0.00
2 4.000e+04 3.361e-05 2.442e-06 -132.92 -131.81
3 6.000e+04 1.605e-05 1.166e-06 168.43 169.54
4 8.000e+04 6.275e-06 4.559e-07 -100.98 -99.87
5 1.000e+05 2.923e-05 2.123e-06 160.31 161.42
6 1.200e+05 6.898e-06 5.011e-07 -86.47 -85.36
7 1.400e+05 5.209e-05 3.785e-06 167.36 168.47
8 1.600e+05 5.646e-06 4.102e-07 -75.58 -74.47
9 1.800e+05 6.403e-05 4.652e-06 171.51 172.62
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.000696%

FFT:
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Old 13th April 2011, 01:39 PM   #4
AKSA is offline AKSA  Australia
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That's pretty good, Dadod!

Very clean, absolutely no sound of its own?

Any sibilance? How is the image depth?

As you realise of course, these qualities cannot be measured.

Hugh
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Old 13th April 2011, 03:25 PM   #5
dadod is offline dadod  Croatia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKSA View Post
That's pretty good, Dadod!

Very clean, absolutely no sound of its own?

Any sibilance? How is the image depth?

As you realise of course, these qualities cannot be measured.

Hugh
Hi Hugh,
Thank you for your interest.
I can say first what equipment I am using.
Source: Denon DVD-3910
Turntable BIX(belt drive) with MC Denon DL103, Cambidge Audio 640P MC
preamp with LM4562 OPAMPs
Tuner NAD 402
Pream: Aikido tube pre(now in reconstruction to get better look)
Solidstate hand made with LME49860
Amp: This one
JLH 80W MOSFET modified by me
Lodspeaker: Hand made with ScanSpeak woofer(18W/8545-00) in closed box and
midhigh ribbon Newfor Reaserch R30

So this is good enough for good listening.
I do not hear any sibilance and the image depth is good, as I go on live classical concert I have that live concert filling wile listning my setup.
I've got function generator and oscilograph but no distortion measuring equipmen.
I have to bay a good external PC sound card and use some of good software for it.
Some more photografs and diagrams.
Square wave no different up to 1.5uF parallel to 8 ohm.
dado
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSC01478.JPG (108.7 KB, 484 views)
File Type: jpg DADO-TMC-T_bootCCS_CLG.jpg (121.0 KB, 415 views)
File Type: jpg DADO-T-TMC -bCCS-mirror.LAY].jpg (69.1 KB, 552 views)
File Type: jpg DADO-TMC-T_NJFccs-square.jpg (332.0 KB, 547 views)
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Old 13th April 2011, 03:34 PM   #6
dadod is offline dadod  Croatia
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Default bootstrapsCCS+T-TMC

Oh, I forgot one informatio that could be intereting.
VAS current fluctuation with simple bootstrap was cca 13% and down to 2-3% with this improved bootstrap.
As expected the low frequences sound was very firm an deep(normal for bootstrap)
dado
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Old 13th April 2011, 05:00 PM   #7
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Very good , DADOD. I gave up in my mix of the bootstrap and TMC , you did not and even added the CCS to the mix !

A few questions .... how do you know you are not listening to your sources (tube preamps , etc) while subjectively accessing the main amp ??

Have you built just a "CCS only" TMC amp to compare to ?

A comment .... I use just a portable music player with either 320kbs mp3's or lossless codec music run DIRECTLY to the amp. No "middlemen" to cloud up the judgement.

As far as the bootstrap having "better bass" , this is because of the cap's effect on the VAS impedance/ damping factor of the OPS. A triple OPS , with it's ultra high current gain/ rock solid damping , will give this effect as will a fully balanced VAS (commonly used by OEM's for subwoofer only amps). My 4 transistor MJE340/350 VAS will be my next "bass only" amp , since it absolutely sounds the best with a dedicated bass driver.
It is the complex interaction between loudspeaker/OPS/VAS that determines the "better bass".

It is good to see someone else both simulating AND building/listening , the proper combination of both techniques is the only way to attain anything outstanding.

OS

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Old 13th April 2011, 05:22 PM   #8
MiiB is online now MiiB  Denmark
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would it be possible to remove the output transistors and instead drive a set of lateral fets where the drivers are located...thus take a full stage out of the amplifier....(I like lateral outputs)
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Old 13th April 2011, 05:24 PM   #9
dadod is offline dadod  Croatia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
Very good , DADOD. I gave up in my mix of the bootstrap and TMC , you did not and even added the CCS to the mix !

A few questions .... how do you know you are not listening to your sources (tube preamps , etc) while subjectively accessing the main amp ??

Have you built just a "CCS only" TMC amp to compare to ?

A comment .... I use just a portable music player with either 320kbs mp3's or lossless codec music run DIRECTLY to the amp. No "middlemen" to cloud up the judgement.

As far as the bootstrap having "better bass" , this is because of the cap's effect on the VAS impedance/ damping factor of the OPS. A triple OPS , with it's ultra high current gain/ rock solid damping , will give this effect as will a fully balanced VAS (commonly used by OEM's for subwoofer only amps). My 4 transistor MJE340/350 VAS will be my next "bass only" amp , since it absolutely sounds the best with a dedicated bass driver.
It is the complex interaction between loudspeaker/OPS/VAS that determines the "better bass".

It is good to see someone else both simulating AND building/listening , the proper combination of both techniques is the only way to attain anything outstanding.

OS

OS
OS,
You are asking very hard to answer questions.
My source and loudspeaker are always the same, and for sure they influece the sound.
I was listening to ordinary bootstrap+TMC and now I am listening this new amp.
What is better, I think this new one. You have sead in your tread that ordinary boostrap is not improved by adding TMC, and I added CCS to the bootstrap.
One think more, this amp is incorporated in an old case with old power supply and quite old capacitors inside. So it could be improved with better power suppla, but is still sounds very good, no listening fatigue.
I am in process to finish ThermalTrak amp with triple OPS and will show it on this forum.
I will suggest similar one with ordinary output BJTs too.
I enjoy in this hobby and SPICE tool could be so addicted and but impossible to bild everything.
Actually I am bilding two amps with three channels in each one for my ORION speakers.
dado
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Old 13th April 2011, 05:48 PM   #10
dadod is offline dadod  Croatia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiB View Post
would it be possible to remove the output transistors and instead drive a set of lateral fets where the drivers are located...thus take a full stage out of the amplifier....(I like lateral outputs)
I think it is possible. JLH 80W MOSFET amp does not use drivers and VAS current is similar cca 10mA. I like the sound of JLH amp with laterals. If to use drivers even better.
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