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Old 17th January 2013, 09:25 PM   #2331
AKSA is offline AKSA  Australia
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BM,

Building will cost too much. Buy a good amp used, it's far the cheaper option. The Jolida is a very good amp, and should be much cheaper if it's used.

Your notion of spending more on a DAC than a power amplifier is, ahem, absurd.

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Old 18th January 2013, 04:03 AM   #2332
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well i might be inclined to upgrade an amp down the road as there's a hot rodded mc cormack in a local shop for $1200, but i was planning on upgrading the DAC to something i'd only have to buy once as i see too many compromises in cheaper units that would force an upgrade down the road. i'm not a fan of having to buy something more than once.

originally, like i thought i said, i was looking into just building a gain clone as those are really simple and should be reasonablly cheap and easy to build, but i'd like something better up to the $500 range.

i'm not a fan of buying used gear at all. i've had terrible luck with that route and think of it as someone unloading their junk for one reason or another. i bought an emax sampler once on consignment not knowing i needed a midi keyboard to test it which i wouldn't have been able to do anyways as i'd only been given 1/2 an owner's manual only to find out the hard drive howled like a banshee and it had other issues. the fostex 8 track reel to reel i bought for about $1,000 had one bad channel or power meter and so on. used gear and i don't get along unless i can try it before i buy it.

i can't picture finding any world class amps used for $500 or so either as the "class b+" stuff is always at least $2,000 in stereophile, not that i totally trust theiir reviews or anything.

i would have thought building whatever from a kit or even a parts list would be the cheapest route to a satisfactory design, especially if i spent money on upgrades that matter the most.

i think i'll just buy s trends amp. it should clearly sound better than my panasonic according tpo the shootout it appeared in, and is only about $150 which is dirt cheap for a "high end" amp, but the kingrex is supposed to be even warmer and more musical and still under my $500 limit. i do like the sound of class D.

my thinking too is that right now, i'm using my 5 year old plus panasonic receiver's DAC or my decade old sony DVD player's internal and not getting a perfect balance of natural detail and speed with non fatiguing ease. a class A+ grade DAC like the gungnir which should be a little better than a class A rated benchmark trying to compare review puzzle pieces would give me a better idea where i stand with my panasonic receiver's amp section too.

i've never used an outboard DAC and don't want to investing a cheap one with some flaws that will eventually lead me to another upgrade. i'd like something i can live with as long as it keeps working and not feel the need to upgrade like i do now with higher resolution speakers than the boomy cabinet mission M71s and KEF ditton 100s i had in between my energy RC-10s and NHT superzeros. they're demanding a better source as they're so revealing.

oh yeah... the NAD receiver i bought had a capacitor issue and something else that was buggy too. nope... i only buy used gear if i can demo it, or it's dirt cheap like the dittons at $40 i think.
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Old 18th January 2013, 05:38 AM   #2333
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Originally Posted by budget minded View Post
.........originally, like i thought i said, i was looking into just building a gain clone as those are really simple and should be reasonablly cheap and easy to build, but i'd like something better up to the $500 range.......

....i can't picture finding any world class amps used for $500 or so either as the "class b+" stuff is always at least $2,000 in stereophile, not that i totally trust theiir reviews or anything......

.........i would have thought building whatever from a kit or even a parts list would be the cheapest route to a satisfactory design, especially if i spent money on upgrades that matter the most........

.......i think i'll just buy s trends amp. it should clearly sound better than my panasonic according tpo the shootout it appeared in, and is only about $150 which is dirt cheap for a "high end" amp, but the kingrex is supposed to be even warmer and more musical and still under my $500 limit. i do like the sound of class D....
It seems you think in retail product terms so it would be pointless considering DIY projects unless you first understood what we or any builders for that matter, have to consider when taking on a pretty intensive string of constructional tasks in building amplifiers from scratch. The technobabble is not show. If you don't come to grasping it, DIY success will elude you when you tackle anything that requires an understanding of how things work and communicating with those trying to help you, as inevitably you will require.

Kits that you buy everything in a box with phone book size instructions are more expensive than finished products now and the better presented, the more lame the product, generally. The really cheap chipamp kits are quite good if you realise they need a lot more parts than just a minute PCB that serves mainly as a connector and a few capacitors. The point is that you will need to engage in the technology to get best results and then to troubleshoot or refine it as required. Throwing together cheapest standard parts seldom results acceptably. You then have to learn how to improve sensibly to even bring them up to commercial standards, if the minimal PCBs permit it, that is.

This all involves techno stuff, techno speak and is uninteresting to a retail customer.

Forums like Audiokarma are all about subjective assessments and guys comparing their purchases. Even scientific test methods are banned. Perhaps that's what you'd prefer to read and find out what really sounds good to some people or what is just craptanium in an expensive case. Likely you can then at least buy what you read about.
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Last edited by Ian Finch; 18th January 2013 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 18th January 2013, 08:46 AM   #2334
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Originally Posted by budget minded View Post
hey, how about multi-thousand dollar interconnects and speaker cables? i'm surprised no one's made 24 karat gold cables yet.
They did. But gold by itself is a poor conductor.
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Old 18th January 2013, 08:52 AM   #2335
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Originally Posted by AKSA View Post
BM,

Building will cost too much. Buy a good amp used, it's far the cheaper option.
True. Many great options under 1000$/ on the used market, mostly stuff that would cost about the same to DIY.

Quote:
Your notion of spending more on a DAC than a power amplifier is, ahem, absurd.
That doesnt seem absurd to me at all, depends on the amount of power needed from the amp. The difficulty of building a proper DAC oneself is a few times lower than for a pre or power amplifier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Finch View Post
Forums like Audiokarma are all about subjective assessments and guys comparing their purchases. Even scientific test methods are banned.
Banned? I read that forum sometimes and looks just like one of the many for general chat about audio gear, with an eye to vintage.
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Old 19th January 2013, 06:49 AM   #2336
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Quote:
The technobabble is not show. If you don't come to grasping it, DIY success will elude you when you tackle anything that requires an understanding of how things work and communicating with those trying to help you, as inevitably you will require.
i'm absolutely positive that all of the techspeak here is relevant for each individual trying to tweak "their version" of the amp... i would think that unless someone were using really bad parts that are 10% or more out of spec though that the same design should offer a reasonably close range of sounds, and what i mean, i gues is i'd look for "an official parts list" of approved parts that have already been tested in a design so everyone's building the exact same unit from the exact same parts sources.

in my mind, if a design is finalized, it shouldn't need further refinements. i guess everyone wants to keep refining the design, but if i were to attempt something like this, i'd rather build a "tied and true" version where all of the parts are correct to begin with.

yes, electroniics, beyond very basic stuff like 2x watts per +3dB, is out of my realm of knowledge, but if i had all of the info needed to build an amp with no potential surprises like resistors can be wired backwards which is in no way apparent without taking a college level course to build something a little more complex than a model kit, i could build an amp i think. before, i thought resistors just did what their name says... resist current like a valve which works the same in either direction. i imagine there's other surprises like that and thatr you can't simply solder parts in the correct place without also noting polaritties.

the more i try and get into building an am it seems, the less likely it is that it will happen and i will just buy an off the shelf unit as apparently a tried and true design with all of the info needed to get it right the first time doesn't seem to exist short of buying a kit that costs more than many decent amps like the kingrex.

it's starting to sound like making parts grade improvements in a design actually causes more problems than it creates. i would have thought, for example, upgrading to 1% resistors in a design would always yield negligible to positive results and so on with higher grade capacitors especially. there's some of my basic electronics knowledge... capacitors can improve the sound of amps as well as speakers, and more little caps are better than one big one, and you just add values together in parallel.

Last edited by budget minded; 19th January 2013 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 20th January 2013, 08:09 AM   #2337
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hi,it is possible to increase the output mosfet?and supply power +35v/-35v ?thanks.
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Old 20th January 2013, 05:08 PM   #2338
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I just joined the forum, Please, tell me the circuit diagram is?...
Hi fansipan, welcome to DIYaudio. This thread is a development thread, so there are many schematics and they are submitted by a few guys who are still trying different ideas.

There are threads in the Manufacturers forum for one version by Greg H2 that was selected by AKSA who sponsored group buys of this "official" Fetzilla amplifier. Read this first thread; it is all there but the group buys are finished - nothing is available to purchase. Swordfishy/ASPEN FETZILLA power amp
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Old 22nd January 2013, 06:59 AM   #2339
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i'm cured... not going to DIY. the TBI milenium MG3 seems to strike a perfect balance between detail and ease, is $500, right where i'm happy, and is class D which i do like, but not as etched as the tech can sound, especially on metal domes.

the reviews make it sound in a similar sonic ballpark to fetzilla etc., but without all the expense and hassle of trying to DIY it, not as hobbyist fun, but budgetary necessity. if the cheap trends amp is supposed to be better than my own panasonic, and the TBI clearly superior to that, it sounds about like exactly what i'm looking for and 30 wpc is enough for the levels i listen to. now you can resume talking your strange language about re-routing power through the tertiary phase plasma conduit unimpeded.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 07:11 AM   #2340
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Are you kidding? Plasma conduit is so dated. We are on to quantum conduit now.
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