I'm new to the forum and am inexperienced in terms of building amps, though I have revised my Quad 303 and 405-2 using upgrade kits.
I am a musician (violinist) with a small recording studio and have an idea of building my own amp but feel rather confused by the different types mentioned here such as the Gainclones some of which i have seen on Per-Anders Sjöström site, and the DXblameST-TMC to name a couple.
In terms of sound i would rather have a warm sound than a sterile over analytical one, but obviously a warm detailed one would be great. I know in a studio that the tone of an album can be determined by the turn of a nob. In other words the ones mixing the record don't always know what they are doing, so i need a very musical amp to be able to listen to even bad recordings, a really top all rounder!
I like my quad amps very much, but am intrigued to see if i can build a very high quality amp that is just as musical and non fatiguing to listen to, or hopefully much more so. I use Harbeth speakers. Thanks for any help.
I am a musician (violinist) with a small recording studio and have an idea of building my own amp but feel rather confused by the different types mentioned here such as the Gainclones some of which i have seen on Per-Anders Sjöström site, and the DXblameST-TMC to name a couple.
In terms of sound i would rather have a warm sound than a sterile over analytical one, but obviously a warm detailed one would be great. I know in a studio that the tone of an album can be determined by the turn of a nob. In other words the ones mixing the record don't always know what they are doing, so i need a very musical amp to be able to listen to even bad recordings, a really top all rounder!
I like my quad amps very much, but am intrigued to see if i can build a very high quality amp that is just as musical and non fatiguing to listen to, or hopefully much more so. I use Harbeth speakers. Thanks for any help.
If you want a colourful warm sound the choice is a 'rather' distortive amp over a very linear low THD because these amps reproduces the recording as it is, which is commonly regarded as a 'dry sound'. I believe that a tube amp or 'tube sound' (even harmonic raised, brain loves this kind of distortion) is what you need.
Cheers
Arturo
Cheers
Arturo
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Well Gainclone would cost much less than say Pass and save you some electricity bill.They do need quality parts if you really want refined sound.Check this comparative review
6moons audio reviews: Audiosector Patek SE
6moons audio reviews: Audiosector Patek SE
Thanks, ok i understand what your saying, thats probably why i like the quads. In terms of a flat or 'dry sound' as you put it, whats the best way to achieve absolute quality? I'm intrigued after your post to try one. I don't think i ever heard one. I do like valves, but i leave them on too often, and, they are too hot for my studio.
hmmm, well i really think you need to just keep reading to narrow this down a bit more, giving answers to such a subjective question is really not possible. I understand your purpose there and the want to make crap more listenable for long periods, but does this not show though as an overly dry end product? or do you have a reference (truthful) set of headphones or some monitor ones etc to get the final mix right?
i'm not sure you are in the right area though, perhaps the tube section
gainclones and the blame dx are not going to play nice with crappy mixes imo. some class D has been described as tube like in sound by some
anyway i think it best you narrow your choices down further than what you have already, well to be honest you havent really narrowed it at all; preferably with some listening as well if you can arrange it, because we really cannot tell you what you will enjoy, especially given the request is for some form of coloration.
haha i wrote this earlier but forgot to hit send, we are hive mind, perhaps you will get something from my post anyway.
if tubes or hybrid are not an option, then discrete solid state is probably what you are after. check pass forums. natural, powerful, yet transparent. push pull discrete solid state, not really a build for the uninitiated though
i'm not sure you are in the right area though, perhaps the tube section
gainclones and the blame dx are not going to play nice with crappy mixes imo. some class D has been described as tube like in sound by someanyway i think it best you narrow your choices down further than what you have already, well to be honest you havent really narrowed it at all; preferably with some listening as well if you can arrange it, because we really cannot tell you what you will enjoy, especially given the request is for some form of coloration.
haha i wrote this earlier but forgot to hit send, we are hive mind, perhaps you will get something from my post anyway.
if tubes or hybrid are not an option, then discrete solid state is probably what you are after. check pass forums. natural, powerful, yet transparent. push pull discrete solid state, not really a build for the uninitiated though
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actually, perhaps check out pansonaudio.com and look at the compact series. he sells partial kits and they are hybrid chip input stage, with power fet output stage. so the trickiness of balancing the input stage is not such a problem. they seem to be well documented and put together amps that both measure and sound well. for your sound prefs perhaps the mosfet version with toshiba or fairchild mosfets. can buy the kit and you need only supply transformers, power fets chassis etc.
Hi, thanks for the posts. Im feeling at this stage i was rather unclear with my origional post. Or lets say not really that clear in my own head! So i will try to be.
I read about the different types of amp on this forum and wonder how different they sound, and if each type can achieve top quality sound. Gainclone etc. At the same time i want to build something, but something really good!! Im very happy with my quads, so its not because i'm unhappy with the sound i have, its just to see what i can achieve. So maybe i need to build a Gainclone or something else, and some other things to compare. What i don't want to do is build something of fundamentally less than top sound. If i build a gainclone for example, i want it to be a really good example so i know what a gainclone can sound like at its best, because its sound i'm more interested in than electronics though i am interested in that too.( Also at this stage i dont want to go for valves as i tend to leave things on, and use them all day!!) I know sound is a subjective matter, but as an amateur in amplifiers, but i'm very interested in the responses. Any recommendations for top designed Gainclones etc would be great too. I know nothing!!! Many thanks
I read about the different types of amp on this forum and wonder how different they sound, and if each type can achieve top quality sound. Gainclone etc. At the same time i want to build something, but something really good!! Im very happy with my quads, so its not because i'm unhappy with the sound i have, its just to see what i can achieve. So maybe i need to build a Gainclone or something else, and some other things to compare. What i don't want to do is build something of fundamentally less than top sound. If i build a gainclone for example, i want it to be a really good example so i know what a gainclone can sound like at its best, because its sound i'm more interested in than electronics though i am interested in that too.( Also at this stage i dont want to go for valves as i tend to leave things on, and use them all day!!) I know sound is a subjective matter, but as an amateur in amplifiers, but i'm very interested in the responses. Any recommendations for top designed Gainclones etc would be great too. I know nothing!!! Many thanks
Bill would love to hear more about the difference between these amps!
I do agree that Pass would sound more detailed
Hi all,
For the reasons above I am going to make a Jean Hiraga 'le monstre' originally designed to be the solid state's answer to the valve 300B.
The thread on this forum is here, this is page 74 and post 733 is the one to read to begin with; http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/5462-hiraga-le-monstre-74.html
Cheers - Jim
For the reasons above I am going to make a Jean Hiraga 'le monstre' originally designed to be the solid state's answer to the valve 300B.
The thread on this forum is here, this is page 74 and post 733 is the one to read to begin with; http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/5462-hiraga-le-monstre-74.html
Cheers - Jim
Something like an amp base on LME49811 + SANKEN ALLEGRO STD003 or OnSemi Thermaltrack has very good reviews that might be almost equal or just equal to class A amps. For the first project it would be more convenient to order a kit with ready to go PCB.
I would say that sound quality very dependable on passive components - power supply electrolytic & decoupling capacitors, attenuators etc. It is possible to get a pretty decent sound from an LM3886 or LM1875 based amp if treat ICs right.
I debated whether to even comment here , but here goes....
#1 - "warm sound" ," natural", "powerful"," transparent",dry ... all snake oil terms loosely dropped to make $$$$. An amp should be invisible ,it should be just your preamp or source with 32db voltage gain along with several thousand current gain. Any deviation from this is error. At clipping, this is different. An amp can clip "sharply" or "smoothly". Either way , this is a error in amplification and basically describes the tube Vs. Solid state controversy. Not counting this error , two amps that are run optimally might sound just SLIGHTLY different by design , or inadequate design .. or for having a different power supply (big factor). Again, this is an error as it deviates from the perfect "wire with gain" ideal (the invisible amp).
#2 - "class war" - Why would you burn 2000 watts to hear only 400 of them ?
Some do as they say it sounds better. The amp actually just makes a different "error" than one of another class would (AB or D). All 3 classes can be made to make the smallest of "errors" (.001%THD). At this point of "fanatic" engineering , we humans would not even perceive these differences.
I have heard 200 watt class A's sound exactly like 200w class AB's until you reached a very dynamic passage that took advantage of the AB's greater efficiency. All this is measurable and predictable by the operation of these topologies. Knowing "which was which" would be the only factor different between the two to subjectively bias the assessment.
#3 - If someone has a preference to "color" their sound , leave that to the many different loudspeakers/crossovers or diverse source manipulations, (tube preamps - 30 band EQ's , DSP processing). If a amp sounds "harsh" or "muddy"
(BAD ) , this is a result of a bad design choice that can be measured and predicted (cheap power supply , junk semi's bad design or a REAL bad layout). Just another error which makes the amp "visible".
Oh .. come on !!! , " lush liquid sound" ... would one get wet ??
Sanken = transconductance tailored for audio (no IRFP's in my amps)
OS
#1 - "warm sound" ," natural", "powerful"," transparent",dry ... all snake oil terms loosely dropped to make $$$$. An amp should be invisible ,it should be just your preamp or source with 32db voltage gain along with several thousand current gain. Any deviation from this is error. At clipping, this is different. An amp can clip "sharply" or "smoothly". Either way , this is a error in amplification and basically describes the tube Vs. Solid state controversy. Not counting this error , two amps that are run optimally might sound just SLIGHTLY different by design , or inadequate design .. or for having a different power supply (big factor). Again, this is an error as it deviates from the perfect "wire with gain" ideal (the invisible amp).
#2 - "class war" - Why would you burn 2000 watts to hear only 400 of them ?
Some do as they say it sounds better. The amp actually just makes a different "error" than one of another class would (AB or D). All 3 classes can be made to make the smallest of "errors" (.001%THD). At this point of "fanatic" engineering , we humans would not even perceive these differences.
I have heard 200 watt class A's sound exactly like 200w class AB's until you reached a very dynamic passage that took advantage of the AB's greater efficiency. All this is measurable and predictable by the operation of these topologies. Knowing "which was which" would be the only factor different between the two to subjectively bias the assessment.
#3 - If someone has a preference to "color" their sound , leave that to the many different loudspeakers/crossovers or diverse source manipulations, (tube preamps - 30 band EQ's , DSP processing). If a amp sounds "harsh" or "muddy"
(BAD
) , this is a result of a bad design choice that can be measured and predicted (cheap power supply , junk semi's bad design or a REAL bad layout). Just another error which makes the amp "visible".Oh .. come on !!! , " lush liquid sound" ... would one get wet ??
Sanken
= transconductance tailored for audio (no IRFP's in my amps)OS
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Bluegrass,
you weren't happy with a hot amp being left turned on (valves) - this would seem to rule out most Class A amps, they are all by nature going to run hot unless you have oversized heatsinks for a given idle current.
for a Class AB amplifier, solid state, state of the art - it's not necessarily going to be a simple project. My best sounding SS amp was fairly simple [http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/167369-designing-tgm3-output-triples.html ] but I would also suggest looking at this one: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/111756-rmi-fc100-single-stage-audio-power-amplifier.html
you weren't happy with a hot amp being left turned on (valves) - this would seem to rule out most Class A amps, they are all by nature going to run hot unless you have oversized heatsinks for a given idle current.
for a Class AB amplifier, solid state, state of the art - it's not necessarily going to be a simple project. My best sounding SS amp was fairly simple [http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/167369-designing-tgm3-output-triples.html ] but I would also suggest looking at this one: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/111756-rmi-fc100-single-stage-audio-power-amplifier.html
yes, without the desire to get down into the nitty gritty, i really dont see how you can build a top shelf performer of any type, except of the buy it yourself variety. i especially feel that sjostromaudio's smd gainclone is going to be beyond your ability and the research/reading needed to do any of these well is substantial.
only option is where all the design choices are made for you imo, such as the pansonaudio kits. these are the ones i was recommending before and someone else since, utilizing the lme49810/11/30 driver chips to drive mosfets, thermantrak, or other 3 pin transistors and you can fairly easily buy a couple and try different output devices
only option is where all the design choices are made for you imo, such as the pansonaudio kits. these are the ones i was recommending before and someone else since, utilizing the lme49810/11/30 driver chips to drive mosfets, thermantrak, or other 3 pin transistors and you can fairly easily buy a couple and try different output devices
If you want to build something that sounds good but isn't expensive to try , then build an LM1875 chip amp. Typically 20 watts per channel and sounds good. After you listen to that and compare with your set up you can determine which way to go .......and that will be more expensive and possibly require more energy and time to complete.
A single stage 6922 preamp might give you the sound you like even with a ss power amp. Tubey but detailed. Parts do matter !
Maybe you should build the tube pre amp first ?
Cheers.
A single stage 6922 preamp might give you the sound you like even with a ss power amp. Tubey but detailed. Parts do matter !
Maybe you should build the tube pre amp first ?
Cheers.
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