Yep...uncle charlie is winning ... despite i am playing with that
You know Ostry, this board style was my single moment of geniality... i did that with 12 years old while other kids where running to catch football rounded things (balls) while i was making rockets at my home.... while they compete to show themselves as strong and dominating machoes, uncle charlie,.... well; young Charlie, was inviting girls to stop in between floors inside the elevators...i just cannot tell you details what's use to happens inside that thing...ahahahahah!
Not enougth?... you stay 6 days using the hell thing...eagle software, deciding the diameter of the whole to be drilled when we do not even need holes...in place to draw your schematic direclty you invert and fill your life with demanding softwares that reduces your efficiency and you tune the slave of your own tradition..without think a single minute about how stupid this is.
I am glad i am from Orion...my name is Solrac (inverted form of Carlos... and you may understand that as you INVERT your layout to produce boards) and i do think you, humans, are not really clever, as you all have a lot of intelligence and never apply them.
First example about you...humans...when you grown up and start to be strong, healthy, independent, having money, home and peace..then you decide to mess with your whole life...you catch a single woman and give up related to whole female population... go dating, just one and only one, giving up about all others..this is not very clever isnt' it?..... if this is not enougth.... as you conquer your own space and freedom, peace and SILENCE... as you have ambience to listen God (good music is God's language) calm and warm place your home...you would be able to listen the little wisper while grass leaves are talking (or touching) one each other, you humans, decide to produce a lot of noisy kids, jumping and screaming all day long and you become their slave..having a lot of worries about them for your whole life...when you become already old... going to die...your mind will be thinking how bad would be their lives without you to take care of them...not clever i think...Orion people uses their mind better...you call us the "men in black".... we are around with our inter stellar cruisers since the humans became better than apes when we have introduced some genetics on you...and you said that God come with his carriage of fire..when there's no fire on that, just photons.... we are flying around and you do not believe in what you see...you call UFO.
You see how pcboards are not inteligence solution...really darn stupid thing..U need washers, bolts, nuts and pressurizing rings..also insulating spacers to put that think in place to avoid produce shorts into the chassis..so....humans construct things able to produce shorts to the chassis and produces metalic chassis in order to produce that short..ahahahahahah!
When you assemble these boards, you do not know what you're doing, as you do not see what happens in the other side (this is not clever for sure).... and you need silk screen (one more need created by human intelligence) to guide you througth the process..... and as this is not enougth stupid, you will put codes on that to mess, even more, with your life....there's no 100 or 2K2, or 33N or BC546....do you know what humans does?... they put code names... R1, C4, Q21a...and them you need a chart, a print or a computer, to know what C4 means...or you will never assemble the damn thing.
Come one Ostry...uncle charlie beated your board style (human traditional style) by thousand years distance and difference...ahahahahahah!
You see how clever humans are (ich bin Orion), doing these foolishes the last 100 years and no one, ever, could realise how stupid things are...and i had to make this way to or no one would assemble my amplifiers..so.... human stupidity forced me to reduce my brain activity.
hohohohohohohô!
Well guys, one day i will let you visit Orion using my dematerialize and materialize machine..then you will see what is a society organization based into the most high principles of intelligence.
Well boys..for sure uncle charlie is having a strong good mood and playing with you..of course this cannot be truth.
Posted without my image without the ligth divergent foolya hyper magnetic field..and my board.... terrible thing..made humans style.
If my picture disappears, vanishes, is because there are other Orion folks in the forum management that use censorship against such kind or things.
regards,
Solrac
You know Ostry, this board style was my single moment of geniality... i did that with 12 years old while other kids where running to catch football rounded things (balls) while i was making rockets at my home.... while they compete to show themselves as strong and dominating machoes, uncle charlie,.... well; young Charlie, was inviting girls to stop in between floors inside the elevators...i just cannot tell you details what's use to happens inside that thing...ahahahahah!
Not enougth?... you stay 6 days using the hell thing...eagle software, deciding the diameter of the whole to be drilled when we do not even need holes...in place to draw your schematic direclty you invert and fill your life with demanding softwares that reduces your efficiency and you tune the slave of your own tradition..without think a single minute about how stupid this is.
I am glad i am from Orion...my name is Solrac (inverted form of Carlos... and you may understand that as you INVERT your layout to produce boards) and i do think you, humans, are not really clever, as you all have a lot of intelligence and never apply them.
First example about you...humans...when you grown up and start to be strong, healthy, independent, having money, home and peace..then you decide to mess with your whole life...you catch a single woman and give up related to whole female population... go dating, just one and only one, giving up about all others..this is not very clever isnt' it?..... if this is not enougth.... as you conquer your own space and freedom, peace and SILENCE... as you have ambience to listen God (good music is God's language) calm and warm place your home...you would be able to listen the little wisper while grass leaves are talking (or touching) one each other, you humans, decide to produce a lot of noisy kids, jumping and screaming all day long and you become their slave..having a lot of worries about them for your whole life...when you become already old... going to die...your mind will be thinking how bad would be their lives without you to take care of them...not clever i think...Orion people uses their mind better...you call us the "men in black".... we are around with our inter stellar cruisers since the humans became better than apes when we have introduced some genetics on you...and you said that God come with his carriage of fire..when there's no fire on that, just photons.... we are flying around and you do not believe in what you see...you call UFO.
You see how pcboards are not inteligence solution...really darn stupid thing..U need washers, bolts, nuts and pressurizing rings..also insulating spacers to put that think in place to avoid produce shorts into the chassis..so....humans construct things able to produce shorts to the chassis and produces metalic chassis in order to produce that short..ahahahahahah!
When you assemble these boards, you do not know what you're doing, as you do not see what happens in the other side (this is not clever for sure).... and you need silk screen (one more need created by human intelligence) to guide you througth the process..... and as this is not enougth stupid, you will put codes on that to mess, even more, with your life....there's no 100 or 2K2, or 33N or BC546....do you know what humans does?... they put code names... R1, C4, Q21a...and them you need a chart, a print or a computer, to know what C4 means...or you will never assemble the damn thing.
Come one Ostry...uncle charlie beated your board style (human traditional style) by thousand years distance and difference...ahahahahahah!
You see how clever humans are (ich bin Orion), doing these foolishes the last 100 years and no one, ever, could realise how stupid things are...and i had to make this way to or no one would assemble my amplifiers..so.... human stupidity forced me to reduce my brain activity.
hohohohohohohô!
Well guys, one day i will let you visit Orion using my dematerialize and materialize machine..then you will see what is a society organization based into the most high principles of intelligence.
Well boys..for sure uncle charlie is having a strong good mood and playing with you..of course this cannot be truth.
Posted without my image without the ligth divergent foolya hyper magnetic field..and my board.... terrible thing..made humans style.
If my picture disappears, vanishes, is because there are other Orion folks in the forum management that use censorship against such kind or things.
regards,
Solrac
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Do not mind and be happy...while in this planet
I am doing same board style as yours:
YouTube - Dx introduction, this one failed
Of course i am kidding...if i was talking serious you would not believe anyway.
regards,
Carlos
I am doing same board style as yours:
YouTube - Dx introduction, this one failed
Of course i am kidding...if i was talking serious you would not believe anyway.
regards,
Carlos
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I am kidding...relax.
Something is reality...other things not.
No doubts you are from earth..and breathing fresh air.
Long life to you Ostry.
You see..that even inviting Orion extraterrestrians, this thread does not take off...less than thousand hits.... people forgot uncle charlie.
regards,
Carlos
Something is reality...other things not.
No doubts you are from earth..and breathing fresh air.
Long life to you Ostry.
You see..that even inviting Orion extraterrestrians, this thread does not take off...less than thousand hits.... people forgot uncle charlie.
regards,
Carlos
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I too have been making my own PCBs for a very long time and must have made over 100 without any failures. I use the transparency/UV, photosensitive process and this really does let you make PCBs capable of working with the smallest of the standard surface mount packages. I posted a wiki article detailing this a while ago.
Attachments
SMD boards are hard to be made...too much thin lines....my style is only for analog audio using low parts count ...for simple auxiliary circuits....to large schematics we have to use eagle (or other) and to order boards....my style is for auxiliary circuits, alike a VU meter circuit, an attenuator, a volume control board, a passive crossover, a power supply, an external CCS....these things.
regards,
Carlos
regards,
Carlos
I designed, etched, drilled and soldered a simple (less then 10 components) PCB based around the CS2000 clock management chip in less then 1 hour. Then, had it up and running in around 30 mins more (this included writing and adding the code to the system micro processor).
Sure, if you're completely unfamiliar with some of the popular CAD programs, it will take you longer, as will making quality PCBs, if you have zero experience there also. But the same can be said for your method. Once you have learnt the required skill set however, which is no more complicated then learning how to use Microsoft Word and learning how to solder effectively, you can make quality PCBs in very little time.
I am not knocking your approach, I am merely illustrating a different way that something can be done.
Just as lots of people like to prototype on vero board, I would rather make a PCB.
Yes....i see and i know you are just chating, and informing having the best intention
I could see that 5th..... i know you a long time...you are welcome.
Using my own way is hard to do your type of circuit...your method is good to this circuit...mine is no good to circuits that have all that thin parallel lines...my way is more rude and rudimentar (rudimentary, primitive, basic) my method shown is better when used together very simple schematics.
Thank you.
regards,
Carlos
I could see that 5th..... i know you a long time...you are welcome.
Using my own way is hard to do your type of circuit...your method is good to this circuit...mine is no good to circuits that have all that thin parallel lines...my way is more rude and rudimentar (rudimentary, primitive, basic) my method shown is better when used together very simple schematics.
Thank you.
regards,
Carlos
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No.
Your method is different and suits your style of simpler schematics (fewer components with through hole soldering leads).
I've had great results with the transparency/UV method myself, made about 20 boards in the last 2 weeks without any issue. They seem to work fine for even fine pitched elements (I have a few SOIC components) anything smaller then that and at least with my soldering skill I really need a solder mask. The traces are fine to 10 mil and maybe smaller if you are careful while etching. That said they never look as pretty as a professionally manufactured board with nickel plating, through hole plating, soldermask and silkscreen.
Yep...i have tried the transparency method too
but also failed several times.... well.... with all methods needs skills, experience...people must use it and fail and learn in try and error basis...all critical, the chemical photo product, the lamp used...how to produce the transparency image....i have made together a friend that teached me.
What i found.... hard, complicated...i decide not to do twice....but as you told..you could do it and felt satisfied...so... seems people have different skills, ones have easier going to learn the stuff..others not.
Well..i use a method using 500 watts swiming pool lamps..not exactly UV i suppose.
regards,
Carlos
but also failed several times.... well.... with all methods needs skills, experience...people must use it and fail and learn in try and error basis...all critical, the chemical photo product, the lamp used...how to produce the transparency image....i have made together a friend that teached me.
What i found.... hard, complicated...i decide not to do twice....but as you told..you could do it and felt satisfied...so... seems people have different skills, ones have easier going to learn the stuff..others not.
Well..i use a method using 500 watts swiming pool lamps..not exactly UV i suppose.
regards,
Carlos
Wow that's some serious light right there. I just use a 12W black light of the CFL type (I was happy when I learned they made these) and a cheap desk lamp. 6 minute exposures seem to work with great results with the light about 5-6" away.
This depends how sensitive is your photo emulsion material
the time length you use to expose, the method you use, the lamp distance to the object, the type of ligth...there's no cake recipe when we are talking about different things... bananas and apples.... well..do not worry, as i said, will not use this method anyway..tried...no good to me....have not satisfied me...was not approved to my personnal use.
Repeating once again...to produce full amplifiers and complete audio boards...i will use, alike others, the stupid traditional method...the eagle, the gerbers, the manufacturer to order, to wait and to use the board made by others (a shame..i am DIY, and this is not diy)....the method i use, it is approved by my person that believes it is a very good way to do things fast, cheap and easy, satisfies me, to small and simple circuits that uses low part's count.... friends are saying their methods, i do think this is interesting, but it is not, and never was, the topic..... and the topic is how to made simple boards at your home, fast and cheap..i am not searching or asking for methods, as for sure, old as i am, i have tried almost all them in the past...mine survived and is still used..because good to uncle charlie..and this is subjective fellows.... the Yellow colour destiny would be terrible if everybody had passion by the blue colour... each one of us with our preferences.... and should open threads teaching folks how to make your boards using your methods to be more cooperative, more efficient, more helpfull and more friendly..not only say you use this or that way..show us in a thread how you make it.
I do think people have a lot of different skills and should share, not only say i do this or that way.... this is not cooperative, this does not help anyone, nor even yourself....open a thread and share..help people guys!
Not here please..this thread is about uncle charlie ancient, primary, rudimentary method.... open another thread and do a good job for our community and be remembered in the future, considered a nice guy.
I would really love to know how you do, in videos, draws, sketches, posts, threads, pictures or anything that can help us to learn, to test, to use your method and to be ethernally gratefull by your cooperation....let's go folks, be pro active...do things for your community..be someone important here...important to the ones have learned from you..we are a community..no one else wants to listen our audiophile stuff..only these guys are here in this forum and in some other good ones too.... so... you can be very important if someone learn from you and start to do what you have instructed them to do.... observe that in this forum you have people alike you..interested in that stuff..people that read and listen with attention...all you can say and show is interesting..do it!.... let's go..do it!
The one that have head hurt...this sign you have a head..and for sure something inside the head.
hehehehehe
Carlos
the time length you use to expose, the method you use, the lamp distance to the object, the type of ligth...there's no cake recipe when we are talking about different things... bananas and apples.... well..do not worry, as i said, will not use this method anyway..tried...no good to me....have not satisfied me...was not approved to my personnal use.
Repeating once again...to produce full amplifiers and complete audio boards...i will use, alike others, the stupid traditional method...the eagle, the gerbers, the manufacturer to order, to wait and to use the board made by others (a shame..i am DIY, and this is not diy)....the method i use, it is approved by my person that believes it is a very good way to do things fast, cheap and easy, satisfies me, to small and simple circuits that uses low part's count.... friends are saying their methods, i do think this is interesting, but it is not, and never was, the topic..... and the topic is how to made simple boards at your home, fast and cheap..i am not searching or asking for methods, as for sure, old as i am, i have tried almost all them in the past...mine survived and is still used..because good to uncle charlie..and this is subjective fellows.... the Yellow colour destiny would be terrible if everybody had passion by the blue colour... each one of us with our preferences.... and should open threads teaching folks how to make your boards using your methods to be more cooperative, more efficient, more helpfull and more friendly..not only say you use this or that way..show us in a thread how you make it.
I do think people have a lot of different skills and should share, not only say i do this or that way.... this is not cooperative, this does not help anyone, nor even yourself....open a thread and share..help people guys!
Not here please..this thread is about uncle charlie ancient, primary, rudimentary method.... open another thread and do a good job for our community and be remembered in the future, considered a nice guy.
I would really love to know how you do, in videos, draws, sketches, posts, threads, pictures or anything that can help us to learn, to test, to use your method and to be ethernally gratefull by your cooperation....let's go folks, be pro active...do things for your community..be someone important here...important to the ones have learned from you..we are a community..no one else wants to listen our audiophile stuff..only these guys are here in this forum and in some other good ones too.... so... you can be very important if someone learn from you and start to do what you have instructed them to do.... observe that in this forum you have people alike you..interested in that stuff..people that read and listen with attention...all you can say and show is interesting..do it!.... let's go..do it!
The one that have head hurt...this sign you have a head..and for sure something inside the head.
hehehehehe
Carlos
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I use the toner transfer method, I used to use this with a Brother printer which has sadly got problems now. I used Kodak "Ultima" photo paper, which is like real photographic paper and does not leave any backing behind. I might try the magazine paper at some point though!
With the toner transfer method i discovered a few things. The board has to be clean, you have to use a good amount of pressure with the iron as hot as it will go, and you have to use a good paper. Cheap inkjet photo paper is not good enough and the plastic like coating will simply come off along with the toner, ruining the board.
With the toner transfer method i discovered a few things. The board has to be clean, you have to use a good amount of pressure with the iron as hot as it will go, and you have to use a good paper. Cheap inkjet photo paper is not good enough and the plastic like coating will simply come off along with the toner, ruining the board.
There is also a special transfer sheet called "Press n Peel" which works well with a laser printer, but it is expensive to use.... £16 for a pack of 5 A4 size sheets. The Kodak paper is more like £8 for 20 sheets.
I now have a cheap Samsung laser printer that seems to put hardly any toner on the page. I suspect this will work poorly.
I now have a cheap Samsung laser printer that seems to put hardly any toner on the page. I suspect this will work poorly.
How to go about improving and perfecting a UV transfer method is outlined in my wiki article.
You are quite right, Carlos, when you mention the exposure etc, as this is the crucial part of the UV process. I use a light designed to help treat SAD syndrome, this contains 4* 36 watt CFLs and is extremely bright. I always do my boards in the same way - PCB material on top of the thick yellow pages, transparency on top of the PCB, then the glass sheet on top of the transparency. The SAD lamp is supported at the four corners with a tin can, usually tinned tomatoes
Doing this, in the same way, every time, keeps the lamp distance from the PCB exactly the same for each exposure. Exposure length is around 90 -100 seconds.
I have found that CFLs work better then standard incandescents. I have several self built lights based around Cree LEDs and I am curious to see how effective these are. They should be useless, as the manufactures state that they don't give out any UV.
Developer strength isn't anywhere near as important, as long as you never make it too strong. When the developer needs replacing, or the PCB material is really old, it can sometimes take up to 5 minutes to develop a board, but this never ruins a board. What ruins a board is having developer that's too strong, too strong and it will strip the entire thing in a matter of seconds, believe me, I've done it! Although I did manage to whip the board out, just in time, so that it was still a success.
Before I had the SAD lamp I used standard 100 watt equivalent CFLs, the exposure time goes up, but the boards were still a success. Yes it takes some trial and error, but you only need to use a 2cm*2cm bit of PCB for a trial run, so you can do 10 trials if you need to.
You are quite right, Carlos, when you mention the exposure etc, as this is the crucial part of the UV process. I use a light designed to help treat SAD syndrome, this contains 4* 36 watt CFLs and is extremely bright. I always do my boards in the same way - PCB material on top of the thick yellow pages, transparency on top of the PCB, then the glass sheet on top of the transparency. The SAD lamp is supported at the four corners with a tin can, usually tinned tomatoes
Doing this, in the same way, every time, keeps the lamp distance from the PCB exactly the same for each exposure. Exposure length is around 90 -100 seconds.
I have found that CFLs work better then standard incandescents. I have several self built lights based around Cree LEDs and I am curious to see how effective these are. They should be useless, as the manufactures state that they don't give out any UV.
Developer strength isn't anywhere near as important, as long as you never make it too strong. When the developer needs replacing, or the PCB material is really old, it can sometimes take up to 5 minutes to develop a board, but this never ruins a board. What ruins a board is having developer that's too strong, too strong and it will strip the entire thing in a matter of seconds, believe me, I've done it! Although I did manage to whip the board out, just in time, so that it was still a success.
Before I had the SAD lamp I used standard 100 watt equivalent CFLs, the exposure time goes up, but the boards were still a success. Yes it takes some trial and error, but you only need to use a 2cm*2cm bit of PCB for a trial run, so you can do 10 trials if you need to.
With the HP I have, the transfer will re-fuse perfect with just a couple pinholes , which I "sharpie" or "whiteout" over(touchup) . The best I did was with photopaper witha second step of therm-osensitive foil run through a laminator. It puts an even tougher plastic over the toner , even "sealing" any pinholes (no touchup). Mouser has green and white foils (fab in a box - prototyping) , I don't but their transfer paper , I can even get the magazine paper to work with foil , you just have to rub ALL the paper fibers off.
My best with the foil is a picture with hair (under 1mil), good enough for any SMD.
PS - 5th , they make some VERY powerful UV led's now.
OS
My best with the foil is a picture with hair (under 1mil), good enough for any SMD.
PS - 5th , they make some VERY powerful UV led's now.
OS
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