Good Coupling and Decoupling Capacitors

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What's your experience on 1 to 100 uF electrolytic coupling capacitors - BG, Nihicon, Philips ? Assume space dopes not allow for film types.

OSCONs are excellent for digital circuit decoupling. What's your experience of their sound when used in analogue circuit decoupling?
 
oscons as decouplers, couplers

I have used oscons in analogue circuits and found them to be an improvement on cheap electro's, better clarity at HF particularly. I used them as replacements in an old mid price nad amp and aiwa Cd player so not really a test of their ultimate qualities.
In the recent EWorld articles they had higher distortion than other types.
Personally I prefer elna silmics which have a more distinct signature, some may find them dull. They are getting harder to get in UK, audiocom have dropped them. I bought a load from here a few years ago at very reasonable prices.
www.geocities/audiograde/

regards
Khush
 
I'm using 4.7 BG N as coupling caps and they can compete with MIT, Hovlands, Siemens MKV. A bit of exageration in top and and a bit of lacking in bass clarity, but overall, not bad at all. Less resolutuion when comparing to MIT RTX (which I still prefer).

I also compared Nichicon Gold (33u) and BG N (4.7u) as decoupling in OPA627 output stage, and Nichicon provided much softer and laid back sonics comparing to BG. I'm not sure if it was because of the value difference or the caps type.
 
cheap also good

Maybe I have a non-standard suggestion. Breaking the taboos.

I am very satisfied with and really surprised by some cheap Philips electrolytic cap's. I used 10 mF 63 V (blue types) several times when building prototypes of very classy amps. The sound was very good: a little bit of colouration in the low-mids, but very crisp sound. On one pcb I soldered 5 different coupling cap's from WIMA MKS, ERO MKP etc to this Philips caps (just for the experiment, I could switch between caps by re-/de-soldering a few points). I dare not tell which one I am using most of the time!

Also good results with Sprague types, also very cheap.

Must be that production techniques have been dramatically bettered during the last decades. In the seventies I remember to have heard big differences in quality between good film caps and electrolytics in the signal path.

The only thing that betters the cheap Philipses are paper-in-oil Jensen or Audio Note types (when price and space is not the issue).

Well: nobody will believe me anyway.

I never tried BG's. If somebody sends me a couple I will try it alongside the Philipses and other types I installed!

Rudy
 
If we are talking about DC blocking caps, I avoid the issue where possible by using metal-film or poly. Up to 10uF the size is reasonable.

If you are taking about providing a path to get HF out of the power rails, I use ceramic because of the greater bandwidth and because I doin't care what it does to a "signal" (noise, hum, etc) I just want to get rid of.

This leaves me with few if any instances where where an aluminum electrolytic is in the signal path.
 
The only thing that betters the cheap Philipses are paper-in-oil Jensen or Audio Note types ).

Well: nobody will believe me anyway.

I never tried BG's

Do you notice the contradiction in your words? And why would anyone send you anything? You reckon guys here are into sending free samples? Or would just jump at the opportunity to finally have their BGs profressionally compared to blue Philips?
 
Disabled Account
Joined 2002
I am very satisfied with and really surprised by some cheap Philips electrolytic cap's. I used 10 mF 63 V (blue types) several times when building prototypes of very classy amps.

You are right in some way about the blue BC caps. BTW they're not called Philips anymore for about three years now IIRC so you'll know when you buy Philips branded ones that they're old. Choose BC when they have them.

What matters is what series you buy ( they're all blue !! ). The 037 and its somewhat Long Life brother 038 are very good. Series 135 is not good sounding although LL, Low ESR, 105 degrees etc. Certainly avoid series 097, they have the shortest lifetime of them all. The series name is printed on them.

Nevertheless there are better brands/types out there. Panasonic FC, Elna RJH, BG NX-HiQ etc. They are only just a bit more expensive. OSCON is king for digital gear. Price/quality ratio of BC is very high and they almost never fail practically.
 
series 37

I looked at them Philipses and they are of series 037.

About the other reply: it just was a joke about the BG's. They are not that expensive that I can't buy a couple of them.

For me the fact that these things can sound better than a lot of film caps is rather puzzling. If others knew this already, sorry for the posting. After spending thousands of dollars on exotic components around 10 years ago, I stopped doing that. Since then I lost track. Now I build normal grade stuff that sounds better for some reason.

The only thing I wanted to say is: just try the 037 series, they can be bought in the local shop. Sorry for being inconsistent or whatever (was I?).

Rudy
 
I want to second the recommendation for the BGs. I read
that much about them here that i had to order some and
solder them into my DAC. I use the 10µF/50V N types.
But be warned! The burn in time some people talk about is
no joke. Under normal listening times it doesn´t only take
days, it is more like several weeks! I was short before
throwing them away cause of their inconstant behaviour.
First they were horrible bride, than they changed to unpleasent
with laid back highs and step by step the full potential came
thru. They are much clearer than 10µF Audyn Caps i tried or
the standard Elna types that were in before.

Jean-Paul (i think) somewhere once suggested to let them under Voltage
for a long time before to use them.
 
diyAudio Senior Member
Joined 2002
Hi,

They are much clearer than 10µF Audyn Caps

As a coupling cap the Audyn sound rather laid back and a little dull.
They may well be the idal match to combat some agressive sounding system.
Somehow they seem to image very well.

I use them in a two way X-over where the speakers magically disappear. Same for a 2A3 PP amp I have.

So, they seem to have the phase behaviour right but the tonal balance is somewat darkish.

Electrolytic caps have made enormous progress over the last twenty years and the gap between this technology and filmcaps is closing at an amazing pace.

Nonetheless the better filmcaps still have a considerable edge that has to be bridge by most electrolytic caps.

Cheers,;)
 
I used these Audyn Caps in my speakers before and they
really have their qualities. But as often you can´t generalize
it has to fit in every condition. They haven´t in my DAC.

It is really amazing how far these electrolyts have gone since my
first wave of audio-sickness 15 years ago.

Cheers :)
 
diyAudio Senior Member
Joined 2002
Hi,

But as often you can´t generalize

Maybe not...in this case I feel I have accurately described what they sounded like on a dozen of occasions some friends and myself have tried them in .

In fact your experience with the DAC pretty much confirms my findings; they're ideal to combat didgitis.;)

It is really amazing how far these electrolyts have gone since my

Absolutamente.

Cheers,;)
 
where to buy?

Jean-Paul,

as you have experimented with quite a lot of different brands and makes. Where can I get BG's, Elna's, Silmic's, Panasonics etc. in the Netherlands? Or is it only possible to order via the net?

Maybe this is common knowledge too, but I can't find too much about it via google.

Thanks.
 
For poly types, I like Wima, and Evox-Rifa, and for electros, I have had very good results with the Rubicon ZAs, and to a slightly lesser extent, the ZLs.

I'd second support for Wima film types, I'm about to test comparable Evox-Rifa parts as they are 1/3 the price.

So far all the Wima's and Evox parts have had copper lead-outs too, unlike BC who almost always use steel.

For 'lytics, it depends upon application, I won't use BG's, despite having had lots of reports of how good they are, as I'm on a concerted effort to reduce the effects of burn-in and the 'data' available on these parts is a joke.

For power rails, the SP series Oscon's are fantastic, but don't stick them straight across standard regulators - they'll hate the Q of these caps.

Rubycon ZA's are also very good, but have steel leads and suffer appalling burn-in problems. They are very leaky from turn-on, making them less than suitable for coupling applications.

Frankly I hate any 'lytic in a coupling / direct signal path application, having tried Nichicon Muse, Elna Starget, Cerafine, Silmic, SlimicII and other more standard parts.

I try to raise Z and use either films or no cap, which is hard if one wants to band-limit LF signal :bawling:

Andy.
 
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