Nope does not matter , the 2 TMC caps in series .. Electronics 2000 | Series / Parallel Capacitor Calculator
For instance 100p - 430p (what I use) will be 82pF in series. Your amp will operate the same as if it had JUST an 82pF standard miller cap while in the audio band. what is fed back through the resistor only "kicks in" (transition) at a certain frequency.
What really matters is how much gain the amp has before negative feedback , this will determine how effective TMC is. The "blame ES" was not specifically designed with TMC in mind. D. self has a ultra high gain "blameless" , same as mine (120+ loop gain) .. he is "excited" (read Cordell's NFB thread) as am I.
It is a little more involved that just adding 2 caps and a resistor."Blame ES" is nice , it just needs adjustment (gain) to make better use of TMC.
OS
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I will look forward, in your threads, for some demonstration on your amplifier
With and without TMC...so, we can evaluate better this subject.
If you can kindly post the link to us, we gonna be extremelly gratefull.
You're doing a very good job to all of us (comunitty) with your effort and enthusiasm, behaving very different than others, as you are not only talking, you're doing things...this is real DIY, and this is what forum proposes to people....this is good and includes you in my team... we are rarities despite the forum tittle...while others think about..we do things.
If you want a suggestion, in the place to use Bx or other thing alike as brand name of one of your amplifiers...use your own name...OS or something that connects the amp to yourself...i do think you deserve that...your effort made you respectable, you do not need to connect your name with anyone else anymore.
Please, do some nice testing and upload them to youtube to show us the difference...a you know, i could not see advantage...maybe you can prove to use we are wrong...and this gonna be progress to myself...you will be cooperating with all folks that have built my amplifiers, as they will have the chance to upgrade (future boards i hope).... also, other amplifiers can use the TMC too.
To me, with the values i have tried (several), the disadvantage was clear..... worse to TMC.
regards,
Carlos
With and without TMC...so, we can evaluate better this subject.
If you can kindly post the link to us, we gonna be extremelly gratefull.
You're doing a very good job to all of us (comunitty) with your effort and enthusiasm, behaving very different than others, as you are not only talking, you're doing things...this is real DIY, and this is what forum proposes to people....this is good and includes you in my team... we are rarities despite the forum tittle...while others think about..we do things.
If you want a suggestion, in the place to use Bx or other thing alike as brand name of one of your amplifiers...use your own name...OS or something that connects the amp to yourself...i do think you deserve that...your effort made you respectable, you do not need to connect your name with anyone else anymore.
Please, do some nice testing and upload them to youtube to show us the difference...a you know, i could not see advantage...maybe you can prove to use we are wrong...and this gonna be progress to myself...you will be cooperating with all folks that have built my amplifiers, as they will have the chance to upgrade (future boards i hope).... also, other amplifiers can use the TMC too.
To me, with the values i have tried (several), the disadvantage was clear..... worse to TMC.
regards,
Carlos
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I always tried to consider how one could do even a subjective A/B comparison over youtube or the internet. The flash video's compressed audio stream could never convey the subtle differences in a "TMC showdown". A much easier test would just be to scope an underbiased output stage with and without TMC.
Or , 2 very high quality FLAC /or wave files (in stereo) .. one labeled "TMC" , one "NO TMC" ... same music , same level , same amp. I also listen to the output stage with my Sony headphones w/200R resistor while loading with a large 8R resistor , even as I have no active large load (speakers) at that point to affect OPS damping factor , I can assess VERY small differences in the sound quality of the amplifiers OPS (output stage).
As a final test , I unleash it (the amp) into my main speakers. If I tried to use cellphone or even a HQ mike , there would surely be overload of the recording device. I just can not understand how these realities could possibly be conveyed over the internet .
Not questioning the man , but the method...
OS
Flac is what i use to listen at home...human ears have perceived the same
while you listen to the AVI converted to MPEGII and them converted to Flash when uploaded to the Youtube.
For sure the audio from youtube is not fine...but even this way we can perceive the same i have perceived listening at my system...speakers in front of me and Dx Blame ST, equal channels playing same power, same supply, same amplifiers.
Yep we can perceive differences.... even when things are bad we can notice something.... you know the differences of fish smell and cat pooh...despite but of them are no good.... this is our best feature...human brain feature..to adjust our threshold of sensitivity.
What turns more clear is when we listen to the original..the difference is so big we cannot stand for.
Well..... despite you're being super kind and educated, i do not like discussions or such kind of conversations, because only listening together we can really be sure... you cannot come to Brasil i think.... so...or you try by yourself to make communications easier or you gonna continue to have your doubts....i really have no doubts about.....because i have listened A and B...and was so huge the difference that i have removed the modification from the left channel...of course i have changed speakers position to check if speaker where making the difference...was not...also i have modified the rigth channel keeping left original..the same way i did with the left channel modified keeping rigth channel original.
I have some good recording that Rudi sent me...all very good Flac recordings...and some i have downloaded...soon i will receive a DAC and things will become even better here...a gift from Mitchel.
I will not feed the argue or discussion or this kind of conversations....my own way, my personality, my character does not appreciate this.... not because of your education, in this case, very kind and gentle...but because we will never find a solution if we do not match amplifiers (same), TMC the same...or the TPC option beeing the same.... same speakers...same audio source and we both listening together, same time.... as we cannot do this way...it is not nice to me continue to discuss...something i hate more than a plague (sadly i could be easier in that way....i cannot)
Here you have, dear friends, the audio sample...the fast test made....i will do another tests in the future, despite i do not believe in good results...but, as i have not appreciated Blameless the first time i have built, and now a days i am Blameless and i am using Doctor Self Hat and Shirt...i accept that changes in my mind are possible.... i can accept that as evolution...so..... if Doctor Self, or John Curl, or Hugh Dean, Jan Dupont or Bob Cordell instructs me to change using another circuit with another values..then i will do it..... there's another one that is very good too.... Wahab...... as the big ones will not mind about uncle Charlie...it is possible that Wahab give a try to help...but without hurry on that.... Christmas is coming and this is important to me..i am Christian inside heart and soul:
YouTube - TMC test with Dx Blame ST - part 1
YouTube - TMC test with Dx Blame ST - part 2
I know the sentence moderators often use.... go against the idea not against the man....but if you think a little bit deeper in this subject...the idea belongs to the man, is inside the man's brain.... so... man and idea confuses and fuses themselves in the same thing...when you go against an ideia, you also goes against the man...nice sentence....but....has some lack of logical base in my mind.
Merry Christmas Ostripper....you released the TMC, now i gonna be happy if you prove me it is a good idea and i will be, FOR EVER AND EVER, gratefull to you because of this help...it is very sad that i had not felt the same enthusiasm you had...i have just felt the freedom to know that people would not solder other parts below the boards we have worked a lot to make... Todd Johnson, and them evoluted by metal, and then evoluted by Mitchel and me.
TMC will be interesting if produces better sound with mine amplifier...if able to produce better sound with other designs is not up to me and not my interest....Dx Blame amplifiers are final ones.... they can be tweaked a little, maybe more or less power...but i will not waste my time with other amplifiers anymore....i have already found the one....this one...to my subjective opinion and evaluation...is the world best audio amplifier ever made.... the Blameless and their copies, clones and inspired units.
regards,
Carlos
while you listen to the AVI converted to MPEGII and them converted to Flash when uploaded to the Youtube.
For sure the audio from youtube is not fine...but even this way we can perceive the same i have perceived listening at my system...speakers in front of me and Dx Blame ST, equal channels playing same power, same supply, same amplifiers.
Yep we can perceive differences.... even when things are bad we can notice something.... you know the differences of fish smell and cat pooh...despite but of them are no good.... this is our best feature...human brain feature..to adjust our threshold of sensitivity.
What turns more clear is when we listen to the original..the difference is so big we cannot stand for.
Well..... despite you're being super kind and educated, i do not like discussions or such kind of conversations, because only listening together we can really be sure... you cannot come to Brasil i think.... so...or you try by yourself to make communications easier or you gonna continue to have your doubts....i really have no doubts about.....because i have listened A and B...and was so huge the difference that i have removed the modification from the left channel...of course i have changed speakers position to check if speaker where making the difference...was not...also i have modified the rigth channel keeping left original..the same way i did with the left channel modified keeping rigth channel original.
I have some good recording that Rudi sent me...all very good Flac recordings...and some i have downloaded...soon i will receive a DAC and things will become even better here...a gift from Mitchel.
I will not feed the argue or discussion or this kind of conversations....my own way, my personality, my character does not appreciate this.... not because of your education, in this case, very kind and gentle...but because we will never find a solution if we do not match amplifiers (same), TMC the same...or the TPC option beeing the same.... same speakers...same audio source and we both listening together, same time.... as we cannot do this way...it is not nice to me continue to discuss...something i hate more than a plague (sadly i could be easier in that way....i cannot)
Here you have, dear friends, the audio sample...the fast test made....i will do another tests in the future, despite i do not believe in good results...but, as i have not appreciated Blameless the first time i have built, and now a days i am Blameless and i am using Doctor Self Hat and Shirt...i accept that changes in my mind are possible.... i can accept that as evolution...so..... if Doctor Self, or John Curl, or Hugh Dean, Jan Dupont or Bob Cordell instructs me to change using another circuit with another values..then i will do it..... there's another one that is very good too.... Wahab...... as the big ones will not mind about uncle Charlie...it is possible that Wahab give a try to help...but without hurry on that.... Christmas is coming and this is important to me..i am Christian inside heart and soul:
YouTube - TMC test with Dx Blame ST - part 1
YouTube - TMC test with Dx Blame ST - part 2
I know the sentence moderators often use.... go against the idea not against the man....but if you think a little bit deeper in this subject...the idea belongs to the man, is inside the man's brain.... so... man and idea confuses and fuses themselves in the same thing...when you go against an ideia, you also goes against the man...nice sentence....but....has some lack of logical base in my mind.
Merry Christmas Ostripper....you released the TMC, now i gonna be happy if you prove me it is a good idea and i will be, FOR EVER AND EVER, gratefull to you because of this help...it is very sad that i had not felt the same enthusiasm you had...i have just felt the freedom to know that people would not solder other parts below the boards we have worked a lot to make... Todd Johnson, and them evoluted by metal, and then evoluted by Mitchel and me.
TMC will be interesting if produces better sound with mine amplifier...if able to produce better sound with other designs is not up to me and not my interest....Dx Blame amplifiers are final ones.... they can be tweaked a little, maybe more or less power...but i will not waste my time with other amplifiers anymore....i have already found the one....this one...to my subjective opinion and evaluation...is the world best audio amplifier ever made.... the Blameless and their copies, clones and inspired units.
regards,
Carlos
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your whole argument on quality is based on what you heard via a YouTube link.
How can you hand on heart stand and say that your YouTube source is giving a fair comparison. Equally can you vouch for the equality of the original recordings?
I will not and can not put any faith in your assessment of the relative sound quality merits of the ST vs TMC ST using your flawed comparison method.
Yes Tekko..... sligth difference in the video...but in the real world, listening,
the difference is shocking, a scandall.
We can adjust our audibility...as we listen with brain....ear is just the transducer from air pressure to vibration and electricity generated... pulses being sent to the brain to understanding.
Tests have value when you switch fast from A to B....if you let play for long time brain will adjust.
Example.... daily example.... Cell phones that have music reproduction.... they use tiny speakers...there's no bass reproduction..not possible...but while listening you start, after some seconds, to listen the bass that does not exist...this is the brain "filling the gaps"..inserting something from your musical experience...so...we listen what does not exist if you give to the brain time enougth to adjust and perceive...when the perception can be an ilusion only. (in this case)
Another example, about threshold of audibility.... the classical example.... noises:
Imagine you are in downtown...main street...rush time...all that noise from automobiles, people, horns, wind, rain and so on....then that woman you love deeply...that one you have desperated passion and that disappeared from your life 20 years ago...then she has found you... the voice is music to you.... that tune you hundred percent...you disconnect yourself from the world and from the reality...flashes of energy will run into your nerves from the point of your feet toes to your fingertips and hairs...heart acelerate..blood pressure goes high... she say hello.... and you perceive the voice.... that's the voice of someone you love with all your heart..... where's the noise?....... what noise?
My evaluation is about what i have listened at my home dear Tekko.... my amplifier playing with and without TMC.... youtube have confirmed....in a less clear way but confirmed the bit troubles in equalization, not treble...bass seems that have increase 6 dB.... treble decrease almost the same value.... i felt the compressor expander effect..the same i have listened from Telefunken High Com system..there's some strange modulation while using TMC....levels floating.
The bit trouble is that the big ones in know how, are so deeply biased in themselves, that they believe so much in their calculations and simulations, that they do not test...they just trust and this is enougth....but real life, dear Tekko, show us this results very different...one thing is calculations and simulations..entering real world there are much more than that ....each track line is an inductor... two copper track lines creates capacitor poles...the amplifier, the board, is very complex..there are zilions of tuned circuits there..there are variations in parts or components..the specifications published in datasheet are not precise..or does not match real life..and you have inductances, capacitances and resistances in each capacitor...well.... it is very complicated...and sonic result use to be a surprise when you believe in numbers...i do think, dear Tekko, i found something that deeply surprises me.... one amplifier that despite have small distortion numbers (0.002% THD), also sounds excelent...usually these amplifiers sounds sterile...not natural, not nice for human ears...usually the most complicated they are, the worse is the sonics.... well..that's i concluded after build and listen and test around 6000 amplifiers.... statistically i understand that i cannot be wrong about that.... i cannot make all that mistake during 50 years long and 6000 times..when several schematics, different ones, where listened.
Want a suggestion...do not waste your time with other amplifiers than Blameless or Blameless clones, copies or inspired units....distrust when too much modified compared to the original.
Your name is interesting and funny in my language.... tekko in my language..local meaning is small technician... a short form of Técnico... Teco is someone (here) that is not even a technician..someone that have learned tips and tricks..alike the defect chassis XXXX from Philips use to burn resistance R33.... then the one knows how to repair..sometimes..when that resistance is burned...it is a funny name here.... i use to smile everytime i read your name...of course this is here...there's anything connected to your skills...you may be a very skilled man..no doubts about that.
regards,
Carlos
the difference is shocking, a scandall.
We can adjust our audibility...as we listen with brain....ear is just the transducer from air pressure to vibration and electricity generated... pulses being sent to the brain to understanding.
Tests have value when you switch fast from A to B....if you let play for long time brain will adjust.
Example.... daily example.... Cell phones that have music reproduction.... they use tiny speakers...there's no bass reproduction..not possible...but while listening you start, after some seconds, to listen the bass that does not exist...this is the brain "filling the gaps"..inserting something from your musical experience...so...we listen what does not exist if you give to the brain time enougth to adjust and perceive...when the perception can be an ilusion only. (in this case)
Another example, about threshold of audibility.... the classical example.... noises:
Imagine you are in downtown...main street...rush time...all that noise from automobiles, people, horns, wind, rain and so on....then that woman you love deeply...that one you have desperated passion and that disappeared from your life 20 years ago...then she has found you... the voice is music to you.... that tune you hundred percent...you disconnect yourself from the world and from the reality...flashes of energy will run into your nerves from the point of your feet toes to your fingertips and hairs...heart acelerate..blood pressure goes high... she say hello.... and you perceive the voice.... that's the voice of someone you love with all your heart..... where's the noise?....... what noise?
My evaluation is about what i have listened at my home dear Tekko.... my amplifier playing with and without TMC.... youtube have confirmed....in a less clear way but confirmed the bit troubles in equalization, not treble...bass seems that have increase 6 dB.... treble decrease almost the same value.... i felt the compressor expander effect..the same i have listened from Telefunken High Com system..there's some strange modulation while using TMC....levels floating.
The bit trouble is that the big ones in know how, are so deeply biased in themselves, that they believe so much in their calculations and simulations, that they do not test...they just trust and this is enougth....but real life, dear Tekko, show us this results very different...one thing is calculations and simulations..entering real world there are much more than that ....each track line is an inductor... two copper track lines creates capacitor poles...the amplifier, the board, is very complex..there are zilions of tuned circuits there..there are variations in parts or components..the specifications published in datasheet are not precise..or does not match real life..and you have inductances, capacitances and resistances in each capacitor...well.... it is very complicated...and sonic result use to be a surprise when you believe in numbers...i do think, dear Tekko, i found something that deeply surprises me.... one amplifier that despite have small distortion numbers (0.002% THD), also sounds excelent...usually these amplifiers sounds sterile...not natural, not nice for human ears...usually the most complicated they are, the worse is the sonics.... well..that's i concluded after build and listen and test around 6000 amplifiers.... statistically i understand that i cannot be wrong about that.... i cannot make all that mistake during 50 years long and 6000 times..when several schematics, different ones, where listened.
Want a suggestion...do not waste your time with other amplifiers than Blameless or Blameless clones, copies or inspired units....distrust when too much modified compared to the original.
Your name is interesting and funny in my language.... tekko in my language..local meaning is small technician... a short form of Técnico... Teco is someone (here) that is not even a technician..someone that have learned tips and tricks..alike the defect chassis XXXX from Philips use to burn resistance R33.... then the one knows how to repair..sometimes..when that resistance is burned...it is a funny name here.... i use to smile everytime i read your name...of course this is here...there's anything connected to your skills...you may be a very skilled man..no doubts about that.
regards,
Carlos
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Are you using high quality speakers and amplifiers while monitoring Youtube
dear Tekko....this makes a lot of difference...with tiny speaker you will not notice the deep bass increase..without a tweeter you will not perceive very high frequencies...so...all this depends on your monitoring system.
When people, including me, produce clones, copies, adaptation from other designs, we usually do not compare with the original...in my case the Blameless..... we want too much to give to the amplifier, our personnal touch, in the reality we want a good reason to call it our amplifier...i wanted and i suppose others do the same way.... i wanted to call it MINE!...this is human, natural...this is passion.
There's no original designs in our modern world....all schematics and ideas are published and we can have them in microseconds using the WEB...so..we are inspired and influenced by everywhere and everyone....even when you go to study in electronics schools and university, there you will face JLH schematic, Cordell schematic, Self schematics.... they are influences too.
Differential is differential.... VAS is VAS.... output is output...there's anything misterious on that...you have to select good source of inspiration, good sub circuits and decide currents (calculate..or divide the current by the stage gains..very simple arithmetics)...decide compensation, input capacitor, lower frequency of operation, have to assemble, to simulate, to inspect in the scope and ready....anyone can create amplifiers...easy..very, very, very easy.... despite some guys wants to give you oposite idea...but this is to increase their own value only..it is very simple....my daugther, since 9 years old knows hot to design an amplifier..not needed PHD to do that...need basic arithmetics and mathematics and basic circuit knowledge only.
If you listen with better quality monitoring system, for sure you will be able to perceive something more than you can perceive with PC speakers..if this your case...of course i do not know your case..just imagining that because you said "small difference"...when it is huge.
regards,
Carlos
dear Tekko....this makes a lot of difference...with tiny speaker you will not notice the deep bass increase..without a tweeter you will not perceive very high frequencies...so...all this depends on your monitoring system.
When people, including me, produce clones, copies, adaptation from other designs, we usually do not compare with the original...in my case the Blameless..... we want too much to give to the amplifier, our personnal touch, in the reality we want a good reason to call it our amplifier...i wanted and i suppose others do the same way.... i wanted to call it MINE!...this is human, natural...this is passion.
There's no original designs in our modern world....all schematics and ideas are published and we can have them in microseconds using the WEB...so..we are inspired and influenced by everywhere and everyone....even when you go to study in electronics schools and university, there you will face JLH schematic, Cordell schematic, Self schematics.... they are influences too.
Differential is differential.... VAS is VAS.... output is output...there's anything misterious on that...you have to select good source of inspiration, good sub circuits and decide currents (calculate..or divide the current by the stage gains..very simple arithmetics)...decide compensation, input capacitor, lower frequency of operation, have to assemble, to simulate, to inspect in the scope and ready....anyone can create amplifiers...easy..very, very, very easy.... despite some guys wants to give you oposite idea...but this is to increase their own value only..it is very simple....my daugther, since 9 years old knows hot to design an amplifier..not needed PHD to do that...need basic arithmetics and mathematics and basic circuit knowledge only.
If you listen with better quality monitoring system, for sure you will be able to perceive something more than you can perceive with PC speakers..if this your case...of course i do not know your case..just imagining that because you said "small difference"...when it is huge.
regards,
Carlos
Returning to the topic.... as TMC is not the topic here
Too much conversation about that for a while.
I would like to ask builders to publish their questions about the Supercharged..if they have doubts about anything..please post it here...if you are shy, then go to:
nanabrother@hotmail.com
About resistances power, or about capacitors insulating voltage, capacitor material (dieletric).... about supply condensers values to each specific case...then come to uncle Charlie.
I would like to ask you not to go to PM...there i cannot attach images or audio...and this is a need sometimes...there i can only post links.... forum private mail is not good enougth..go direct, then we gonna have full features we can have.
regards,
Carlos
Too much conversation about that for a while.
I would like to ask builders to publish their questions about the Supercharged..if they have doubts about anything..please post it here...if you are shy, then go to:
nanabrother@hotmail.com
About resistances power, or about capacitors insulating voltage, capacitor material (dieletric).... about supply condensers values to each specific case...then come to uncle Charlie.
I would like to ask you not to go to PM...there i cannot attach images or audio...and this is a need sometimes...there i can only post links.... forum private mail is not good enougth..go direct, then we gonna have full features we can have.
regards,
Carlos
Well from what I have heard whilst watching the video I found there to be quite a difference in sound. This would mean that if I were at Carlos's house listening at the same time I would hear an even greater difference. This is the same that has occured when I have posted comparison videos on you tube. I have found that a little difference in you tube video sound is an Actual greater difference in the real recording room.
Besides my preferences of amplifier are only my own Opinion and should not make people so distressed. As you are older and more wiser than myself you should know this.
Please share some videos of your projects so that we all can enjoy. YouTube or not.
Regards
Niss_man
Only people that have made these kind of recordings
knows the precision or unprecision of these things.
You did also dear Niss-man.... you fast perceived that digital camera are the weakest point..and then you have substituted by your dB meter.
We know, because we did testings.... people wants these things translated in words..there's no translation possible...people must do it to learn things about...and if have not tested..for a while, should listen what others, more skilled about these recordings, can say.
Interesting.... people that believe in numbers, when they have not all that connection with quality, can believe in that and cannot believe in what ears can tell....can you imagine that Simon...there are people that do not believe music was made for human ears..that was made for instruments and numbers.
Strange this kind of menthality....people can be different..no troubles..but something does not make any sense to me.
Well..maybe i am not clever enougth...only god knows.
regards,
Carlos
knows the precision or unprecision of these things.
You did also dear Niss-man.... you fast perceived that digital camera are the weakest point..and then you have substituted by your dB meter.
We know, because we did testings.... people wants these things translated in words..there's no translation possible...people must do it to learn things about...and if have not tested..for a while, should listen what others, more skilled about these recordings, can say.
Interesting.... people that believe in numbers, when they have not all that connection with quality, can believe in that and cannot believe in what ears can tell....can you imagine that Simon...there are people that do not believe music was made for human ears..that was made for instruments and numbers.
Strange this kind of menthality....people can be different..no troubles..but something does not make any sense to me.
Well..maybe i am not clever enougth...only god knows.
regards,
Carlos
I am glad to inform you... Blue Boards for Supercharged, first round
Will be shipped today.
30 kits for brazilians and 12 kits for the international comunitty.
These ones will travell under detailed registration and will have track numbers.
regards,
Carlos
Will be shipped today.
30 kits for brazilians and 12 kits for the international comunitty.
These ones will travell under detailed registration and will have track numbers.
regards,
Carlos
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I always thought youtube comparisons were rediculous until I heard one recently comparing a tube amp with a Quad 405 amp using same source and speakers - and to my surprise I found the difference detectable. It even reminded me of the sound difference between my own tube amp and TGM amplifier.
That Quad versus the tube was clear
That tube have eated the Quad....no chance.....but maybe this test was not fair...i do not know if Quad preamplifier was bypassed or not...when comparison should be power amp. versus power amp....sometimes preamplifier changes the result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwmDNTxJHDM
regards,
Carlos
That tube have eated the Quad....no chance.....but maybe this test was not fair...i do not know if Quad preamplifier was bypassed or not...when comparison should be power amp. versus power amp....sometimes preamplifier changes the result.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwmDNTxJHDM
regards,
Carlos
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Hi Gareth,
Are you referring to THIS? If so, did you notice that the test was through 2 different speakers, in different room locations? This would totally invalidate any result.
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Yes, that's the one - I thought it was through same speakers. Anyhow, for me what was interesting was the ability to hear the difference and find one sound better - and all through crappy youtube video and iMac speakers. I heard differences that reminded me of my own A/B comparisons at home - which I never thought it would be possible to do. Of course I couldn't make a complete comparison, but I was surprised that some subjective differences were audible - smooth and rich mid range, harsh hi end, tighter bass etc.
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