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Old 9th February 2018, 04:20 AM   #8891
DPH is offline DPH  United States
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Pretty sure even mutable sites are considered public domain. Definitely if on a website.
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Old 9th February 2018, 04:31 AM   #8892
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Bob Cordell's Power amplifier book
well.... are you going to patent it or not? Otherwise, why mention it? document the design and date it and witness sign it (pref an engineer). At least then no one else can claim it as their own invention first and apply for patent after your date of invention. and if they did, you can show you invented it first and thus null-void their patent.


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Last edited by RNMarsh; 9th February 2018 at 04:34 AM.
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Old 9th February 2018, 04:58 AM   #8893
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryDymond View Post
Which country's patents work like this? In the UK, you can't patent something you've put into the public domain. You have to apply first, then you can publish. Pretty sure the UK isn't unique in it working this way.
Basics of Publishing Before Patenting -



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Old 9th February 2018, 05:20 AM   #8894
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Bob Cordell's Power amplifier book
Watch out for "prior art". There isn't much new under the sun these days and you could get all fired up before discovering that a telephone company already invented what you are working on. Just because they did it with tubes doesn't invalidate the method.

To be honest, unless you have a larger company to back you, a court case could drain all your assets and once out of $$ you could lose anyway. Certain people and companies tend to avoid a large company and look for individuals without a big brother.

All a patent really does is give you the right to sue another party for using your idea. That is effectively it. If they out manufacture you and flood the market, that's the ball game in a very real sense.

-Chris
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:54 AM   #8895
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNMarsh View Post
At least then no one else can claim it as their own invention first and apply for patent after your date of invention. and if they did, you can show you invented it first and thus null-void their patent.
We no longer keep notebooks to sign and date because this statement in general is no longer true, you can no longer save a notebook and wait an indefinite time to file. Even your link recommends in the end to not try and and use the limited 12 mo grace period.

Sage advice now is to file a provisional application, it is not that expensive or involved.

Quote:
Under the First-to-File regime, large corporations with well-established invention disclosure procedures, patent committees and armies of in-house attorneys will always beat a lone inventor in the race to the Patent Office, thus placing small and independent inventors at a severe disadvantage.
Harry is right BTW the grace period was added as some kind of political compromise in the US it does not apply in the rest of the world.

Quote:
Other countries have patent systems based on the “First-to-File” doctrine, in which the patent is granted to the inventor who is the first to file a patent application, regardless of the date of invention.
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Old 9th February 2018, 11:44 PM   #8896
SyncTronX is offline SyncTronX  United States
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Bob Cordell's Power amplifier book
Scott's correct.

AND

The gold standard for inventor's interested in patents
and protecting their Intellectual Property (IP-not Internet Protocol) rights follows.

Patent It Yourself by David Pressman. Now in its 18th ed.: LINK

Much has changed as I've got 1/2 dozen of the earlier
editions. Much of what we knew has changed.
It used to be file, then change, change, change
your drawings and tweak your invention...and 20 years
after you earned a patent it was protected.

I'm not longer sure, but at some point if it was offered for sale
before the patent was approved you were screwed.

Chris, not entirely true, we can use prior art to benefit our
patent application and Pressman tells us why and demonstrates
how to go about it.

You've got a lawyer who'll do the work. Good for you,
you can save $1,000s just by educating yourself and
making sure your attorney is on the ball. The'll even
be impressed by your knowledge when you discuss the
issues with them.

For the price of the book at $44.95 from what you will learn
you can't go wrong. Too much to pay for it? Go to your
local public library and check it out from them.

Don't feel bad, I've got to buy the new edition also.

So how many patents do I have? None. Why not?
When I did my market analysis I didn't think I'd make
enough money to cover the effort. I reckon I could have
had at least 1/2 dozen vanity patents but I'm a realist.
I have all my logs and inventor note books etc.
I knew I didn't have the Keurig coffee dispenser either.

Similar to advising my friend on a business purchase he
was considering. He gave me the financials to review and
my analysis to him after two minutes was this:

Think about all the effort your going to be putting into
this, the ordering, the returns, dealing with the public,
losses, shipping, theft, damage, etc. The day to day
running this business, that you are going to be tied to
and all the head aches that are going to come of it.

And we are assuming the financials are correct.
So, answer this, are you willing to do all that
is required and only make $8000 for the year?

He told me then that he'd spent days talking with
other people to get their input and I boiled it all
down to him so he could make an answer in two minutes.

Cheers,
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Last edited by SyncTronX; 10th February 2018 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 10th February 2018, 07:06 AM   #8897
jan.didden is offline jan.didden  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyncTronX View Post

The gold standard for inventor's interested in patents
and protecting their Intellectual Property (IP-not Internet Protocol) rights follows.

Patent It Yourself by David Pressman. Now in its 18th ed.: LINK
Supported here. It's a very good book, worth its money many times over, if only to ground you firmly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyncTronX View Post

Think about all the effort your going to be putting into
this, the ordering, the returns, dealing with the public,
losses, shipping, theft, damage, etc. The day to day
running this business, that you are going to be tied to
and all the head aches that are going to come of it.
Sounds a lot like Linear Audio ;-)

Jan
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Old 10th February 2018, 02:01 PM   #8898
Krisfr is offline Krisfr  United States
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Could a consensus (if there is such a thing on DIYAudio) to reflect SOTA, power amp of about 100 to 200 watts with a swap-able VFA and CFA frontend be made in to a thread to go along with the book? I am sure a PCB could be offered like the one for the project that OStripper did for DIYAudio before. Just to go along with the book for practical reasons.
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Old 10th February 2018, 11:31 PM   #8899
RNMarsh is offline RNMarsh  United States
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Bob Cordell's Power amplifier book
Quote:
Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
We no longer keep notebooks to sign and date because this statement in general is no longer true, you can no longer save a notebook and wait an indefinite time to file. Even your link recommends in the end to not try and and use the limited 12 mo grace period.

Sage advice now is to file a provisional application, it is not that expensive or involved.

Harry is right BTW the grace period was added as some kind of political compromise in the US it does not apply in the rest of the world.
having your ideas explained to someone knowledgeable in the field signed and dated is still a good idea. Then when there is an argument as to who came first. Even when someone beat you to the patent appl. Good practice and backup if it gets to a court fight. But, provisional as soon as possible is best to hold your place.

However, if you decide that you cannot afford the cost at the time of idea creation, the witnessed doc again can help -- if while making up your mind or saving your Penny's someone else also thinks of it.

The patent cost easily is 5-15K USD. I have several patents granted. Maybe a dozen.

Only one patent ever made me any money and it made me far more than break even after paying the other patent costs. It was a licensing agreement for %-age of net sales. No investment of my own.

A provisional patent and then rush to license it to someone who can use it and make a zillion products using it. Take the percentage royalty.

Or take the Fame route... publish it. Not much money but lasting fame and notoriety from your peers. Deep bows from strangers is priceless.

Now as Mr Wonderful says on Shark Tank. What are you going to do?

THx-RNMarsh

Last edited by RNMarsh; 10th February 2018 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 10th February 2018, 11:41 PM   #8900
Joachim Gerhard is offline Joachim Gerhard  Germany
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Lasting fame. Never heard about it.
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