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Old 16th August 2002, 12:36 AM   #31
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Old 16th August 2002, 04:17 PM   #32
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Has noone listened to the ICEPower? I haven't.

What I understand, this amp is the state of the art right now. The algorithm has been publish in JAES and is patented and is really complicated. But the modules are cute and so small!
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Old 16th August 2002, 06:25 PM   #33
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Default Ice Power Indeed

Hi Peranders, I have had a 90 minute osr so listen to the IcePower modules on a isobaric sub and 8" 2 way active prototype system using 3 of the 100W modules, on music that is really not my favorite including some really old tracks on CD release.
First impressions are that they are utterly load independant, slewless, imd less, niceley accurate and unfussy, but strangely coldish and uninvolvingish - this I expect is a product of the load independance - really dirty old recordings were plainly presented as such without reduction or embellishment and tuneful resonance was sort of absent.
In the near future I'll get back to a proper longerer term listen.
I have held these modules in my hand and studied them closely - they look rather good, but perhaps a few little rearrangements are required in the layout and componentry.

Eric.
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Old 19th August 2002, 02:59 PM   #34
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Nelson Pass wrote:

Quote:
Personally, I agree that one of these days switching amps
will rule the world, and old fogeys like me will be sitting
around pining for the good old analog days.
I am convinced that (apart from curiosity of course !) Nelson Pass or Pass Labs will never be forced to develop/produce a class-d amplifier.
The highest quality segment of amplifiers will not be the main target of this technology (although there are very good class-d amps available).

The main application areas for class-d amps are:

1.) P.A.
2.) medium-FI applications (mass-market)
3.) applications with constrained space (active speakers, lifestyle systems, car audio........)
4.) active subwoofers

From a technical point of view I am a fan of class-d, but will definitely use conventional amplifiers for my active MSW project.

Regards

Charles
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Old 1st June 2003, 10:21 PM   #35
km is offline km
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hi.

how many of you have heard a pwm amplifier on a hifi setup?

it seems to me some of you are just repeating what they have heard about pwm amplifiers and later about switch-mode power supplies.

i have heard several high quality pwm amps and i have been involved in comparing several of these (including icepower , tripath and our own designs...)

and i have heard same amp with a normal power supply (toroid, fast diodes , ....) and with a switch mode supply , they do sound a bit different but i think i perfer the switch mode supply.

these tests were made on normal and on high efficiency hifi speakers ( 90 db and around 100 db) and the noise levels were completely acceptable (i.e. no noise at listening position and very little fine grain noise at high efficiency tweeter , an audax pr130 btw.)

so your statements that it will take long time before pwm amplifiers reach acceptable audio level and that switch mode supplies wont work in hifi are not verified in the real world.

if you want to discuss further about the quality (or lack of same) in pwm amps i think it wpuld be a very good idea to say what you heard and under what conditions.

i think its worth to say that there are in fact several good class-d/pwm amps around , spectron , belcanto, ps audio to name a few.

rgds karsten madsen - www.cadaudio.dk

ps. peranders good specs isnt always the same as good sound
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Old 2nd June 2003, 10:06 AM   #36
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Hi Karsten

I have only heard two high-end switching amplifiers so far, the TacT MillenniuM (digital PWM) and the Sharp SM-SX100 (delta-sigma) and I wouldn't hesitate to listen to all the others if the opportunity arises.
Both were very well sounding amps and also the build quality of both was very nice (especially the TacT). By that time they were extremely expensive compared to an ordinary amp with the same performance.
How does your amp compare to ordinary ones in the price respect (soundwise I've already seen some good reviews, congrats !) ?

I did never doubt that switching amps can be made well sounding and I must also admit that I am a fan of switching amplifiers myself.
But a technology does not only have to be small, efficient and sexy, it must be able to be good AND reasonably priced as well (cheap and mediocre is not a problem anymore with heaps of avaliable integrated solutions nowadays).

But I am still convinced that the absolutely highest quality amps will still be ordinary linear amps for some decades to come.

Regards

Charles
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Old 2nd June 2003, 10:47 AM   #37
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Quote:
KM: how many of you have heard a pwm amplifier on a hifi setup?
I have "tested" the "Milennium"(TacT), over-rated, and much too expensive.

And the Acoustic Reality (icePower), also over-rated, lacking "body", but sweet and detailed.

And YOUR (CadAudio) version of Tripath, nothing special about them, but they were certainly less efficient than Tripaths own evaluation-board, wich I'm in the process of testing/tweaking now.
I thought you knew the difference of Class A and PWM...

And so-far, with DIY in mind, Tripath at-least has adjustment/tweak-possibilities, Not easily done with the other modules/amps, unless you start from scratch. Not easy...

Circlotron has done just that, and I'm filled with envy...


Arne K
NORWAY

BTW, All tests have been done on "better" versions of
AudioVector speakers.

And (IMHO) it's not difficult to get reasonably good sound with lousy spec's, the challenge lies in doing both good !
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Old 2nd June 2003, 12:00 PM   #38
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Default Forgot to mention...

I also have a "story" about the LC-Audio PWM boards. (First gen.)

S***

ArneK
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Old 2nd June 2003, 12:52 PM   #39
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I have visited LC-audio's homepage recently and I have seen that they:

1.) got rid of the stupid sales-talk
2.) got rid of the air-cored output inductor in favour of an air-gapped ferrite one (like I did 12 years ago ).

To me these are two important steps. If the price will decrease to a more interesing level I might even think of getting two of these modules to play around with.

Regards

Charles
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Old 2nd June 2003, 03:48 PM   #40
km is offline km
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hi.

"And YOUR (CadAudio) version of Tripath, nothing special about them, but they were certainly less efficient than Tripaths own evaluation-board,..."

just for your info , they are tripath boards , just a smaller footprint of their eval board.

we had the big footprint version for test too , it has same efficiency and other specs.

did you try to change deadtime? , efficiency (and audio quality) is related to that.

did you try to tweak other things ?

rgds karsten madsen - www.cadaudio.dk
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