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Old 22nd May 2010, 04:13 PM   #31
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Default Reason why i am using CCS to the drivers

Main reason why is that Electrocompaniet have used.... and they are very good designers... and i use to copy the good ones to be one of them (one day!)

Technicall reasons in my understanding:

Speakers use to have impedance valleys...in some frequencies, they use to offer to the amplifier a very low impedance and this is helped by the passive crossover.... also you may want to connect your amplifier into 2 ohms impedance and want it not to loose too much power compared to 4 ohms speakers... you want the opposite..you want to have more power.

The main idea is to provide more current to the drivers, a reserve of current, much more than needed, to face extraordinary sittuations.

We can increase driver current reducing it's emitter resistances, beeing floating ones or beeing the standard two resistances, one to each emitter and connected to the output line.....BUT this creates a problem too..when you have increase of current (dinamic operation and iddle operation) you have increase of voltage drop over these emitter resistances.

This increase of voltage drop will decrease the voltage from colector to emitter, reducing the voltage swing and of course, the consequent current swing sent to the output transistors.

The use of CCS, having 20 to 30 mA,will provide a fixed and much more stable voltage to feed the drivers...not having that resistance there, as we do not use resistances anymore, the voltage drop will not exist..so...all voltage swing..and current swing (or almost) will be sent to the drivers.

We perceive that as more punch, in special in low frequencies and in low midrange frequencies where you have drums and some voices....more power to the amplifier, more stability in the operation.

Test this by yourself in your amplifiers..this is good to all amplifiers... Electrocompaniet solution

regards,

Carlos
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Power supply; ripple, filter, noise, stability and the use of capacitance multiplier... Portuguese and English; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSm0ku1eIgg
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Old 22nd May 2010, 05:30 PM   #32
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that this amplifier is the final scheme if there is somehow a completed PCB or anyone can tell what power is and how sound thanks
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Old 22nd May 2010, 06:18 PM   #33
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Default Please, read the thread dear Black

No boards for a while..will not have boards to sell..only layout to yout to etch.

Board layout is beeing prepared.

Schematic may be the final one...but, as i told, will be released july, 17 (read the whole thread)..till that dead line i can make improvements.

regards,

Carlos
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Power supply; ripple, filter, noise, stability and the use of capacitance multiplier... Portuguese and English; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSm0ku1eIgg
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Old 23rd May 2010, 06:53 AM   #34
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Default My good friend, Dx United Kingdom, Mr. John Blackburn, our forum member

My dearest friend John Blackburn.... i will have a cup of tea because of your visit in our thread...a pleasant presence you are.

Yes.... and can do it with clean undistorted unclipped audio... a continuous power, not an instantaneous small time burst of power.... the monster...the hell hammer... the thunderstorm soul...the Thor Hammer hitting the skies...deep throat of devil in the abissal deep of ocean.... at least in theories....so...you see..how distance are the theories to the reality.

ahahahahaha!

Crazy things...i do agreed.....but it can work from 12 volts (25 watts at 4 ohms) to 120 volts symetrical (1500 watts at 4 ohms.... 750 at 8 ohms).

And this huge power, in the reality depends on a 3000 watts supply to each channel..this means 2 enormous transformers to each channel.... 4 huge transformers inside the same case for a stereo.... 2 enormous 60 centimeters heatsinks... square section that would be something alike a tunel to have them inside would be 18 centimeters each side.... this animal would suck 60 amperes from you mains (will melt your wires)...will need auxiliary power, or special wire from your Electrical company... or a generator.... the heat generated would be the same as a 6Kw electrical heater..these ones use resistance that turns red and have a reflector behind as a mirror to send heat to people...these ones used in Alaska or North Pole.... that animal should need 75000uf/160volts condensers to each side of your supply...total of 150 thousand microfarads to each channel.

These specifications are simulator specifications... real life you cannot afford to build that monster... real life, the power will drop because the supply voltage will drop too... real life, the EMF from the speaker will not let all that power be reproduced...real life you would not be in the same place the monster will be working because of heat.... real life you would need two guys to transport that monster... no shelf will be good to accept that weigth...the magnetic field generated may harm our health... the speaker wires should need to be thick..will be enormous and huge rubber cables very thick...real life no speaker will survive... real life your home power will float and with the bass punches your electricity, your voltage will drop and your home will be flicking alike a Christmas tree.

The idea behing that is , the possibility, the chance, to have instantaneous burst....small time huge burst of power when your supply electrolitic condensers are charged .

Another idea is to use this amplifier as modules... say.... a good brazilian idea Sound Buster gave me.... modular boards... having several output parts you may cut out..alike paper that has holes and you can remove, cut out, the paper sheet from the paper book... you know, these holes to allow us to break the board and remove parts we do not want...alike higienic paper with dots made to your to cut pieces of paper to use.

The good thing is that you can use whatever supply you have around..the voltage you have..the transformer you found..the junk transformer you have.

That continuous power, is something theoricall, something you may not achieve in the reality..simulator things...just a delirant thing that may hypnotise powerholics...you have a chance to have huge power.... but together the amplifier, as an acessory, you will need to have a truck with a generator, two employees to move the amplifiers, giant reels to your audio cables and a lot of unobtanium things.

To our mains....let's say 110V.... the maximum realistic power people can have is when they suck 15 amperes...this means 1500 watts sucked, drained from the home mains outlet...seems you will have 750 watts of audio energy that can be distributed to 2 channels (375 each channel) or to 5 channels (150 each channel)

More than that, is just imagination, delirant things only.

Real life, continuous power, sinusoidal signal entering, unclipped power...more than that.... is not easy to have.

regards,

Carlos
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Power supply; ripple, filter, noise, stability and the use of capacitance multiplier... Portuguese and English; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSm0ku1eIgg
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Old 25th June 2010, 05:11 PM   #35
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Default I am producing a board layout to offer.... will be constituted by modules

The first one, i will present now, have the differential and the voltage amplifier...next module will have the VBE multiplier and last module will be the output...i will try to arrange CCS assembled in a pile style, one transistor above the other.

The sequence of images, will show the easy method to produce boards at home, a craftsman style, with a pen painting the board.

I know now a days people loves to produce professional style..but DIY means another different thing, and some guys in this forum are really good ones to produce boards at home.

Final work will show how these modules connect one each other..using wires... to be assembled above a flat heatsink, or a flat surface of a multi finned heatsink.

regards,

Carlos
Attached Images
File Type: gif Troyan input.gif (19.5 KB, 650 views)
File Type: gif Troyan input - interconnection nodes.gif (19.5 KB, 634 views)
File Type: gif Troyan input - Spots to solder parts.gif (19.3 KB, 618 views)
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Power supply; ripple, filter, noise, stability and the use of capacitance multiplier... Portuguese and English; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSm0ku1eIgg
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Old 25th June 2010, 05:14 PM   #36
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Default Observing the schematic, watching it and at same time looking at these images

in the sequence, you will perceive this is the schematic...exactly the schematic in positions..what is left in schematic is left here..what is top is top here..what is low position will be low position too....no secret, no trick and no magic..just the most simple possible thing.

Observing you will notice the method is very easy, and that takes much less time than produce boards using software.

It is less pretty, but has more pleasure..as you did..not the software.

This last image..i have just started to join lines in big islands of copper..only the top was made to present the old style to the ones does not know..but the invitation to you, to do it by yourself, producing these "islands" the way you like is registered here.

regards,

Carlos
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Power supply; ripple, filter, noise, stability and the use of capacitance multiplier... Portuguese and English; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSm0ku1eIgg
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Old 25th June 2010, 08:16 PM   #37
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Carlos, my friend. thought you did not like CCS's ??? I was doing this 6 months ago ... Self type 3 EF (hybrid triple)... any pointers ?? ,at least to the driver / output stages.
You must of read it , your looks identical.

The real research was already done. A more simple , refined way to do this is run the LPT/VAS from separate PS instead of ALL them CCS's.

On the bright side , at least your horizons have expanded . You now do self amps , combo dx/self amps (bootstrap self amps) , and this one. Ahhh , next you need to do symmetrical or complimentary topo's to complete the "DX" lineup.

Just for understanding , you do not need to use a OP device in the big CCS's (mjl1302) , all the "big ccs" does is "suck out" the carrier charge from all the outputs bases (reduces Xover distortion). Most of the current to push the outputs into conduction is passed through the drivers (mje15032/33) , should use another set of OP's as drivers. Mine (link above)works from 1 pair to 12 pair outputs.
OS

Last edited by ostripper; 25th June 2010 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 25th June 2010, 08:23 PM   #38
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Default I still dislike CCS, you see that i am using bootstrapp to VAS in the Blame

This one was made not to my ears...made because a friend that believe CCS is good..so..now he has all the CCS he wants.

I am ready to give to people what they want, despite my personal taste.

The search of inconsistencies in things i do or i say seem unfriendly, also this concern is too small for a man like you..someone who has enjoyed my amplifiers and for sure does not want to spit in the dish you have eated..... if people prefere to look for logical flaws in my person will find a lot of these things..for sure they will... this is very easy to find ... flaws in my amplifiers are also easy to find.....not so easy is to perceive flaws in the sonics..the ones i indicate as good. usually people enjoy.... have built Symassym?..it is also good.

I will not discuss theories.... a never ending thing..build, listen and conclude by yourself.. and this is what you use to do..continue in that direction that is producing to you enormous know how..and read this thread please...you will read, as i said, several times

- " The Troyan sonics is not so good as the Dx Blame sonics."

I have not copied your amplifier..as you use to do things alike i do..we both have the same reference..Doctor Self...i use to copy Doctor Self..maybe our amplifier may be alike..because we have copied (or inspired) from the same source.

Interesting that is so easy to perceive in people's behavior and actions..the limits, the border line in between love and hate is a very thin line.... Siegmund Freud have studied that deeply...people loves me because my amplifiers, also they hate me because of the same amplifiers.

I am ready to give attention when the people is emerged into the love season.

ahahahahahah!

regards,

Carlos
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Power supply; ripple, filter, noise, stability and the use of capacitance multiplier... Portuguese and English; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSm0ku1eIgg

Last edited by destroyer X; 25th June 2010 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 25th June 2010, 09:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
I will not discuss theories
Hey , these are just amplifiers... calm down

I just don't want anybody to get hurt

I will not discuss theories , I will show you.

In the 2 attached pictures , A - B - C are the currents. A is the driver CCS . At 26ma, a mje340 or mje15032 is just fine since the current is constant within a few Ma of 26.

B is the big driver current running the 6 pair of outputs or more into a short or a bunch of paralleled speakers. At 400 - 800 ma ,you might want to use a output (njw0281)as a driver as a mje15032/33 are too "wimpy" (soa to small) to run all those outputs.

C - the most important thing- the load on the vas by the drivers. At 3ma , or even 1ma this will DISTORT the clean music signal produced by the amp in question. This is why an additional pair of predrivers (mje340/350) is used to reduce the load to VAS to microamps. with 3-4 pair output a single pair of mje15033/32 is fine. 5 or more with heavy load , what you see below is the way.

OS
Attached Images
File Type: gif OPs-example.gif (20.5 KB, 571 views)
File Type: gif currents.gif (53.8 KB, 224 views)

Last edited by ostripper; 25th June 2010 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 25th June 2010, 09:49 PM   #40
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Carlos,
My dear friend what have you given us now. I can not wait till the 17 for the final picture. Would very much like a set of these pcb's when and if made.

Thanks Tad
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