Dx Troyan, a 650 watts channel amplifier. - Page 23 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th August 2010, 04:05 AM   #221
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default Well dear friends, uncle Charlie is back again.

The misunderstanding was caused by my mistake.

The schematic does not show the correct part really used in the prototype...i have always used MJE15032 transistor for first and second VAS.... my intention was to replace but i have not another transistor for that position...soon i will have, as Evette from Canadá is sending me hundreds.

Old pictures posted in this thread may show you the second VAS big heatsink and you may see the MJE15032 in the first VAS position.

This was the trouble.... the prototype was using MJE15032 and i made the first mistake, posting a schematic from my simulator (generated by simulator and converted in pdf) showing the BC840.... this unit was just to make tries to see if i could find a transistor that could help me to reduce THD in the simulator analisis....i knew it could not face the voltage....was a try only and by a mistake it was shown in the schematic diagram.....gladly no one have built.... that transistor would not work there..it is a low voltage unit.

Then i made another mistake.... i have replaced after someone pointed the error,by another wrong one... the 2N5551 also cannot do the job...it can face the voltage but not the power.

Another mistake in the schematic, the first VAS emitter resistance is not 50 ohms.... it is 560 ohms....this is what was designed and assembled in the working prototype...almost 500 miliwatts iddle is the power in that transistor..without signal.

So, as people have not the prototype, or an assembled circuit, only watching the schematic, found these errors and complained...... and me....by my side, having a working prototype, could not accept the amplifier was not working..that would explode or be damage.... was working.... and working for monthes long.

Some small adjustments are being made...first to make the schematic a good copy of the reality..also some small tuning will be made...i do not like the 25 kilohertz square wave...i think we can make it better....also the limiter adjustment resistances will have a trimpot to adjust clipping simetrically.

We still have a "more real" schematic,but will have small modifications..so..i is provisory only.

I have made tests with 3.5 ohms load...inductive+resistive load..and the amplifier survived, using only 5 pairs (this is the way prototype is) in the ouput... and because the supply i have used dropped the voltage to more or less 70V.

I believe it will work fine with reactive loads when using the 10 output pairs suggested...and soon i will test that...sadly will not be able to test with 3.5 ohms because my supply voltage drop.... as i will not have 80 volts..but i will be able to test with 8 ohms.

As i could not test to lower impedances.... and because of that i cannot guarantee the amplifier survival under these circunstances..under these conditions, them i would like to say the amplifier can work with 8 and 4 ohms only.

I have made some videos.... not only explaining these things, the main differences between the schematic and real life prototype, and some testings made.... i hope you enjoy.

Sorry by the bad image...i have two cameras..one has good video and other has good audio...i have not digital camera that has good audio and video.

Troyan amplifier is not guaranteed to work with speakers, or output impedances, lower than 4 ohms

Next post will have links to videos.
__________________
This Sunday assemble a toy amplifier....a good fun to your weekend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0qvkwsAOY

Last edited by destroyer X; 14th August 2010 at 04:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2010, 05:35 AM   #222
diyAudio Member
 
Workhorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Hello Carlos,

Sad to hear that selenium is acquired by Harman now


Cheers for Troyan amplifier


Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2010, 09:33 AM   #223
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default I almost have cried Kanwar.... very sad thing.....well.... this is

the new Global economy...... but Selenium was very traditional here....something very Brazilian.

Let it be...new world, ....new brands.

regards,

Carlos
__________________
This Sunday assemble a toy amplifier....a good fun to your weekend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0qvkwsAOY
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2010, 09:38 AM   #224
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default Here some videos about Troyan tests.

First video explain all that misunderstanding we had..... differences from real life amplifier and the prototype:

Sorry about video quality:

YouTube - Introduction - Troyan - errors being fixed in diagram
YouTube - 1 - Troyan test, set up presentation.
YouTube - 2 - Troyan test, stand by supply voltage
YouTube - 3 - Troyan supply voltage drop - 80 to 70V
YouTube - 4 - Troyan output, 37.5V RMS over 3.5 ohms
YouTube - 5 - Troyan test, conclusion

Enjoy!

regards,

Carlos
__________________
This Sunday assemble a toy amplifier....a good fun to your weekend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0qvkwsAOY
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2010, 10:06 AM   #225
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default This is the updated schematic and layout from Troyan amplifier

Thank you Alex mm by your help.

I intend to open a new thread.... builder's thread...for builders only, this way we gonna have only the needed informations.

This amplifier schematic, layout and so on will go to Greg Erskine pages too..but i want to refine it first...also i have not part's list and Greg will ask me the BOM..also adjustment instructions and other details.

In advance i want to check how much interest people have to build big amplifiers...this one may reach 650 watts each channel, unclipped, 4 ohms loads, with 80 plus 80 volts supply (huge one or SMPS one) and THD will be around 0.021% to 4 ohms.... and of course smaller to 8 ohms.

Building a stereo, then having two channels added.... 650W plus 650W will result in 1300 Watts total.... a strong amplifier.

Well..this is simulator specifications only..... to see some real thing you should watch the videos made.....with reality problems...supply with voltage drop.... poor builder that has only 10.000uf plus 10.000uf by 100 volts condensers..and so on...hehehehe...it is hard to obtain full power this way

We will go progressing stimulated by the interest...having huge interest the amplifier will be re-tuned for maximum performance (sonic)...and charts, informations and videos will be produced and published.

Let's see if there's something more to be fixed...i will inspect the prototype in details to check the schematic....to be sure they are the same.

regards,

Carlos
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AMPL DX TROYAN CARLOS M.BOTTOM.pdf (65.1 KB, 324 views)
File Type: pdf TROYAN SCHEMATIC V1.5.pdf (85.9 KB, 289 views)
__________________
This Sunday assemble a toy amplifier....a good fun to your weekend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0qvkwsAOY
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2010, 10:15 AM   #226
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default Alex mm, Dx Corporation European Layout Laboratories

have made nice X Ray vision...but too much big.

Then i have splitted in two parts to show you... soon i will learn how to manipulat layers and will have images by myself.

This board made by Alexandru, looks alike the Enterprise Space Ship.... wonderfull..not nice!..just wonderfull!

Builders!....please, write me and i will upload to your email adress the full size pdf file:

Use direct email....forum PM cannot attach images, goto:

carlos.eugenio1951@yahoo.com

regards,

Carlos
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Art work.jpg (495.8 KB, 486 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Board in transparency 2.pdf (70.1 KB, 278 views)
File Type: pdf Board in transparency 1.pdf (99.5 KB, 272 views)
__________________
This Sunday assemble a toy amplifier....a good fun to your weekend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0qvkwsAOY

Last edited by destroyer X; 14th August 2010 at 10:30 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2010, 10:43 AM   #227
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default These pictures shows you the VAS stages...the way it was since the first day

the Troyan was built, and that was there working till yesterday when i have removed them and substituted by MJE15034 (from Evette - Canadá).

I had colector lead broken in the transistor case..could not solder anymore... this is the main reason i use to cut leads short..this is to avoid "mechanicall advantage"..... Alavanca (lever) in my language, to avoid broke the lead in a easy way.

regards,

Carlos
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Vas darlington.jpg (214.0 KB, 453 views)
File Type: jpg Vas darlington, other TRs.jpg (190.1 KB, 429 views)
File Type: jpg The last TRs tried.jpg (192.2 KB, 403 views)
__________________
This Sunday assemble a toy amplifier....a good fun to your weekend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0qvkwsAOY
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2010, 10:51 AM   #228
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default Gladly i am receiving people in my direct email adress

People that intend to build the amplifier...this Troyan.

I feel happy, of course, i am human..... i have feelings...all the good and bad feeling we all have.... but, i have to inform things about:

- The amplifier was tested....passed!....but the board was not tested!

- The amplifier is an average performer...alike hundreds of others you can find..it have anything special in sonics....a very good sound.... a very good performance, high fidelity,but not awsome..just good and fair....does not have superior sound alike Blameless or Dx Blame ST...it is a power plant.

Also, despite i have tested real life, some good engineers had worries about the amplifier..some of them said would explode, damage, cause harm results...some of them asked moderators to close the thread, to vaporize the design and desintegrate the whole thing...so...the amplifier is under suspectious in the Academic group.

I felt reliable, worked for hundreds hours...and i cannot understand (really) their worries..maybe some mistakes i have made in the schematics.

I am a self made man..that learned in this same forum... someone that have practice and not too much theories..i have made dozen courses, long studies in Brazil and in outside Brazil...but i have not the degree..so...not too much addicted to calculations... i have perceived we have to adjust things to real life and i felt good to be in the "production line" instead of the design department...i am creating in the workbench...burning fingers...if i have doubts will burn, will explode, then i submit to test, to torture, to see if will happens or not.

The one made the layout is a friend, a cooperator in the Big Corporation of high quality amplifiers, the Dx Corporation, the Audio amplifiers Union.... we are a virtual group of builders... associated inside the virtual corporation of freak fanatics..... Alexandru is not my employee...he belongs to the virtual Corp. that has not a boss, has a representative chaiman wich is "Uncle Charlie".

Alexandru made the board...the layout..he has the gerber files or can have them..it is up to him publish or not the gerber files...i really do not mind he publish or not....i want him free and happy to do whatever he wants to do..he is a cooperator, not my employee.

The man, Alexandru, or Alexmm, is very good, he have never made a mistake..all his boards had no revision because of him...revisions where made because uncle charlie making foolishes.... i think his board is fine...but, Alex is human..he can make mistakes alike all humans does.

So..you will be board layout beta testers..... it think Alex have not build and i am not sure if he intend to do that...i think not..he have not all that free time...so..i cannot guarantee if we may have a copper line missed or not in that board.

Build this layout under your own risk..i can guarantee the circuit, but i cannot do the same for this board..untested!

Pictures shows a 250 watts heatsink, used in a Television transmitter, the one had 250 watts consumption continuously.... this heatsink is too much small to one channel, at least two of them should be used, and each one of them with their own fan blower operating with 8 volts DC not to produce too much noise.... this one overheated to almost 80 degrées celsius while i had an enormous fan blowing air to it...as a 60 centimeters diameter high powered fan...this one is too much small!

regards,

Carlos
Attached Images
File Type: jpg The Dx Troyan, the power plant!.jpg (390.1 KB, 136 views)
__________________
This Sunday assemble a toy amplifier....a good fun to your weekend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0qvkwsAOY

Last edited by destroyer X; 15th August 2010 at 11:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2010, 11:26 AM   #229
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default The heatsink i suggest to each channel should be big as this one

Then you will be able to use full power without troubles...but use a low speed fan blower (8 volts supply, an LM7808 may help to reduce from 12 to 16V)

2 of these ones to each channel..one for NPN and other for PNP...or equivalent to this area exposed to the air..do not worry about thickness, it just produce a delay in the heat transference..the heat exchange is made by area exposed to the air.

The images have dimensions in the place of identification names.

This one proved as not good enougth using only one to a single channel...so, i think 2 units, using fan blower may be good..or the equivalent in size..i am not absolutelly sure...but i can sniff that because of long time practice and i really think it will fit.

I will study, once again, fuses values and supply condenser values..will inform you as soon as i see several folks interested.

regards,

Carlos
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2 inches.jpg (360.1 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg 6 inches.jpg (198.6 KB, 46 views)
File Type: jpg 8 inches.jpg (302.1 KB, 42 views)
__________________
This Sunday assemble a toy amplifier....a good fun to your weekend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk0qvkwsAOY
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th August 2010, 11:33 AM   #230
wahab is online now wahab  Algeria
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: algeria/france
The protection act only by limiting the current to 1.5 A per power
device whatever the output voltage.
R30/31 resistors are useless since they are not correctly
settled for the circuit to provide a I/V protection...

The VAS is not protected if ever the output stage
limiting current circuit start to conduct...
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
zeta 500 watts n-channel amp pcb need ashokavarthanan Solid State 0 1st October 2007 03:10 PM
Fender/Sunn SA6520P 6 channel powered mixer 520 watts dhardinger Instruments and Amps 0 12th April 2007 11:10 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:14 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2