Dx Troyan, a 650 watts channel amplifier. - Page 11 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd August 2010, 11:25 AM   #101
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default In the real world, we have supplies having losses

The voltage will not be 100 volts anymore....and as a result, the power will also drop.

The ones feel the need to have more safety, or the ones will use rock stable power supplies or 2 ohms loads, these ones can increase the number of output pairs...distributing 60 watts maximum to each transistor, considering the consumption and not the output power....and this was written in this same thread.... my case was that voltage dropped and my power was reduced to 600 watts RMS.

To full power, using a powerfull SMPS supply, full power enter clipping.. no more than 15 pairs may be needed.. and this to continuous steady tone from generator.... when music is not that way....music is average.

I use to build and test.... this way i scape from the "I think so" reality to the "I know" reality...and everybody can do that, it is not my privilege...people must only to work hard, to hold soldering iron, using less speak and more action, working more than typping and talking.

This is the main difference we have folks...i am a buider...i use to check things in the real world...where i face real things... real supplies, real voltage drops.....i could not have a stable supply, as this is not easy in this range of power....so, only few pairs was used considering what gonna happens with almost everyone...exceptions will be considered separatelly, and some customized amplifier may be suggested,and directly, to the ones will use SMPS.

Will not be hard, nor clever customization, i will just ask the impedance the man will use and will increase the number of output pairs.

There's absolutelly no impeachment for you, while building, to use more power transistors and to apply the modifications you believe as good.

The schematic will remain the same...you do by yourselves your versions as you look very interested.... and enjoy a nice amplifier....not outsdanding! ... this one is only nice.

regards,

Carlos
__________________
Dx Mark One - The lowest THD amplifier ever made! - LOADED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC3_AdPbLvc, Unbeatable Dx Mark One; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tGBiqMnzQ

Last edited by destroyer X; 3rd August 2010 at 11:39 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 11:35 AM   #102
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Default 1000W and 200Vdc

Hi all,
if these ill advised recommendations of Destroyer keep going, then someone is going to get hurt.

It must stop.
Destroyer is being irresponsible in promoting this schematic and this power by his methods.

If the only way to stop Destroyer is to close the thread, then I vote for closing the thread.
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 11:49 AM   #103
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Carlos please read what is written several times: it is NOT the power dissipation. It is the combination of Ic and Vce that necessitates the paralleling. Please check out the SOA picture in the data sheet, that's the least you can do. Then calculate the Ic-Vce combinations that will occur in this amp driving a real world speaker with its phase shift. Please.

jd
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 11:58 AM   #104
wahab is offline wahab  Algeria
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: algeria/france
Quote:
Originally Posted by janneman View Post
Wahab, SOA is not about power, it's the combination of Vce and Ic that is limited, even when it is a lot below the 'official' allowed power. The max dissipation is a DC spec. Check the SOA curve.

But hey, who am I to recite the data sheet. It is everybodies own choice what he wants to build, but if you lead people to a certain path, you also have a responsibility that goes further than trying to get the most followers.

jd
Agree , jan , but you should read that i m talking about
power dissipation of the devices.
I just wanted to point that it occur when the amp is
delivering half of its supply voltage and that this
value is the worst case in the dissipation curve , and
as, must be retained to determine the count of BJTS that
must be used to stay in SOA.
You will also noticed that i retained a value of 50W
for devices rated at 200W TDP ,since the datasheets
specify this very same SOA at 25 C, which is not
the case with an amp that see its OPS device gladly
reach 70/100C.


That wasn t evident ?..i then must try to improve my
writing (lacks of?) skills...
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 12:01 PM   #105
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default Was tested real world Janneman...it is not a datasheet issue

Was tested, and i have used other transistors.... i suppose they are not that different, as they belong to the same family.

You see here the prototype, was tested...voltage has dropped, also power dropped naturally and was not the full power designed... you see that 5 output pairs (J4215 used, observe that some transistors are CCS and drivers) could manage to face 600 watts during one hour long (i used fan blower of course..the heatsink cannot face more than 250 watts of audio power...different than watts of heat).

If 5 pairs could manage 600 watts...then 10 pairs (suggested) will manage 1.2 Kilowatts...and the amplifier does not reach more than that unclipped...also supplies will have voltage drop... in real life this amplifier will not reach 900 watts RMS...so.... was tested folks!

And against real world there's no argument!

These transistors can manage to work with 180 volts peak to peak or i am wrong?

Maybe you are rigth if they cannot manage that...as this i could not test, my supply had voltage drops.

If then cannot, then i can replace them to MJL4281A..... them i will replace and will ask Alexmm to fix in the schematic and in the board layout.

Attached the MJL4281A and the working prototype.

regards,

Carlos
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5 pairs was safe with 600 watts, so, 1200 watts will need XX transistors pairs.jpg (164.1 KB, 500 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MJL4281A.pdf (62.5 KB, 130 views)
__________________
Dx Mark One - The lowest THD amplifier ever made! - LOADED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC3_AdPbLvc, Unbeatable Dx Mark One; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tGBiqMnzQ

Last edited by destroyer X; 3rd August 2010 at 12:20 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 12:19 PM   #106
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahab View Post
Not all is true.
You forgot that the device only conduct 50% of the time,
David Eather shows how to do this properly.
Google and learn.
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 12:22 PM   #107
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default First post already shows the output pairs quantities

You should read a little in advance to post things.

Here you have the J4215 and J4315 informations...datasheet is too much big to attach, but you can download it from the WEB.

regards,

Carlos
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (175.8 KB, 464 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (168.7 KB, 417 views)
File Type: jpg 3.jpg (258.9 KB, 385 views)
__________________
Dx Mark One - The lowest THD amplifier ever made! - LOADED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC3_AdPbLvc, Unbeatable Dx Mark One; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tGBiqMnzQ
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 12:22 PM   #108
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Carlos, I tried to explain that it is not a power dissipation issue but a safe operation area issue. It has to do with Ic-Vce combinations (NOT Ic x Vce which is power) that is of importance.
Anyway, the issue should be clear.
happy building.

jd
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 12:24 PM   #109
diyAudio Member
 
jan.didden's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Great City of Turnhout, Belgium
Blog Entries: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by destroyer X View Post
You should read a little in advance to post things.

Here you have the J4215 and J4315 informations...datasheet is too much big to attach, but you can download it from the WEB.

regards,

Carlos
Wrong Carlos, this does not show SOA. You DO understand SOA, don't you?

jd
__________________
If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news? - W. S. Maugham
Check out Linear Audio!
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2010, 12:27 PM   #110
diyAudio Member
 
destroyer X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Recife - Brasil Northeast
Default It was built dear Janneman...do you think real world tests have no value?

Worked!...i cannot understand what you mean...sorry...maybe i am not skilled and i have to make it burn because theories.

You may be kidding...i will remember to laugh about latter.

regards,

Carlos
__________________
Dx Mark One - The lowest THD amplifier ever made! - LOADED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC3_AdPbLvc, Unbeatable Dx Mark One; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4tGBiqMnzQ

Last edited by destroyer X; 3rd August 2010 at 12:31 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
zeta 500 watts n-channel amp pcb need ashokavarthanan Solid State 0 1st October 2007 04:10 PM
Fender/Sunn SA6520P 6 channel powered mixer 520 watts dhardinger Instruments and Amps 0 13th April 2007 12:10 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:21 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2