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Old 3rd August 2010, 08:30 AM   #91
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I really can't believe people take this amp seriously. The MJE's CAN NOT take that much current, especially at 4R. The output section will "droop" at 16A .

Use a dang triple with output transistors as the drivers. And why the hell would anybody use the MJE's for the VAS ?????
A very, very poor design , goes against every major manufacturer's scheme. Even Rod elliot (ESP) says so (below - triple) 100v is not enough for 1KW/8R , unless you drive 4R , THEN you will really get "droop", or the MJE's will burn up .

Even 10 pair of the MJL3281/1302 will not survive 16A , maybe MJL21193/4's would just "squeak by". READ UP ON SOA !!!


For a get down and dirty amp like this , use 5-6 pairs IRFP240/9240 vertical mosfet's to get your 1156 watts ....CHEAPER, since this is no audiophile amp anyways.

To advise forum members to " play" with this deadly voltage using such a sloppy design is against better judgement and could be fatal and/or expensive. This is the one time I feel moderation is in order.

GET IT TOGETHER , MAN. Read project 117 - ESP audio pages,Doug Selfs book... something.

OS
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Last edited by ostripper; 3rd August 2010 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 08:47 AM   #92
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Default Very unkind behavior Ostripper

Unfortunate unfriendly attitude dear Ostripper.

As you are an old member, you should conduct yourself better, dedicating more respect to your history in this forum...you deserve to appreciate yourself more than that.

Personal problems with me shall be treated with me directly, my email adress is widely published in several threads, also you have the forum communicating system.

Attacking thread opener this way, will not promote you..... asking for thread topic deviation to another amplifier is extremelly wrong.... agression and bad intention is clear.

Your temperamental speech , highly untimely deposes against your person.

Moderators knows what to do, they are trained for that, and solution is always result of the whole moderator's group decision..so, then never go subjectivelly....i suppose they do not need your help to decide what thread is good or not good.

regards,

Carlos
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Last edited by destroyer X; 3rd August 2010 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 08:58 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by destroyer X View Post
Unfortunate unfriendly attitude dear Ostripper.

As you are an old member, you should conduct yourself better, dedicating more respect to your history in this forum...you deserve to appreciate yourself more than that.[snip]
Carlos
Carlos, please.

Ostripper did attack a very poor design. That is a good thing, it IS a poor and dangerous design. You should also show some more responsibility to those who read this thread.

jd
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Old 3rd August 2010, 09:01 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by destroyer X View Post
Unfortunate unfriendly attitude dear Ostripper.

As you are an old member, you should conduct yourself better, dedicating more respect to your history in this forum...you deserve to appreciate yourself more than that.

Personal problems with me shall be treated with me directly.

regards,

Carlos
Not unkind at all , you lead your followers off a cliff. This has to be the worst design in forum history.

Look up the SOA of the output devices and drivers , I am right and you are WRONG !!!

At 100v , the MJL's can't even sustain an amp. So you would need 16-18 pair to do the job. 12 pair of MJL21193/4's might do. Even worse the drivers can't even do 100ma SOA at 100V. These are truths , not ill will. I did not make these parts , I just report what is real.

As far as the design , it is bad ... it will NOT sound good at high power levels, and IS dangerous.
It is a VERY expensive way to get 1000 watts as well (over $130).. just for outputs that will burn anyways (with that design).

You fail to listen to reason , I would use the MOSFETS personally (Church amp I really built for $$$) only $35 .. no SOA issues.

OS
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Last edited by ostripper; 3rd August 2010 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 09:12 AM   #95
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I suggest you redesign this.... for safety's sake. What is below is the real way to do it. I did notice you started using "suckout" CCS's (self type3) and other tricks soon after I did anyways.

Output stage below works .. no oscillation , just trickier to thermally compensate.

I don't need that much power , so keep the design , you could power 50 pairs of mjl's off of it.

OS
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Old 3rd August 2010, 09:44 AM   #96
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Default Was tested Janemann, it is not a simulator result.

Was assembled and tested for long time.

Worked stable, sounded very good and i had not problems.

I do not think it is a bad design or something alike....maybe you can make better, publish and we gonna enjoy your amplifier too.

But it is more easy to be evaluating others when we do not show ourselves.

If you do not like the design folks..what are you doing in this thread?.... complains about the design flaws should be sent to Electrocompaniet.....as the amplifier is almost a clone...deeply inspired on Electrocompaniet ideas and models...so.... you are saying this company is not good?

heheheh...for sure it is easier to criticise...as there are always things to discuss, to improve, or to make better... and others will come, moved by the same feeling you have...till the moderators decide that is enougth.

Ostripper have contributed showing some amplifiers...but you dear Janeman, have you contributed too?... can you please post the links to your amplifiers?

regards,

Carlos
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Last edited by destroyer X; 3rd August 2010 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 09:56 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by destroyer X View Post
Was assembled and tested for long time.

Worked stable, sounded very good and i had not problems.
[snip]Carlos
Pictures? Test results?
It's a bit cheap to say, hey, you didn't build it, so shut up. Everybody who can read English can read in the datasheet that at 100V Vce those devices can carry only 1 Amp or so. You can get lucky a few times, if you don't stress the amp too much or too long, but it is irresponsible to recommend such a design.

jd
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Last edited by jan.didden; 3rd August 2010 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 10:00 AM   #98
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Default You can simulate Janneman...you can also build if you want

then you will have the real thing to evaluate.

Sorry, i have other things to do, also very important to do... and you can search the thread reading comments and may find the prototype picture too.

Was posted that this amplifier has anything special in sonics..it is an average performer...has power... anything more than that...so.... there's some point we agreed.

I do not think you and Ostripper wants a pleasant meeting or nice conversation..so... i will not feed that anymore.... sadly i do not feel myself motivated to prove you anything.

regards,

Carlos
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Last edited by destroyer X; 3rd August 2010 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 10:07 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostripper View Post
Not unkind at all , you lead your followers off a cliff. This has to be the worst design in forum history.

Look up the SOA of the output devices and drivers , I am right and you are WRONG !!!

At 100v , the MJL's can't even sustain an amp. So you would need 16-18 pair to do the job. 12 pair of MJL21193/4's might do. Even worse the drivers can't even do 100ma SOA at 100V. These are truths , not ill will. I did not make these parts , I just report what is real.

As far as the design , it is bad ... it will NOT sound good at high power levels, and IS dangerous.
It is a VERY expensive way to get 1000 watts as well (over $130).. just for outputs that will burn anyways (with that design).

You fail to listen to reason , I would use the MOSFETS personally (Church amp I really built for $$$) only $35 .. no SOA issues.

OS
Not all is true.
You forgot that the device only conduct 50% of the time,
letting the remaining 50% to his symetrical siblings.
Thus , with 100V vce and one ampere , the said device
will dissipate 50W , which i think is within his SOA curve..

Since the maximal dissipation occur when the output voltage
is at half value (averaged in case of a sine ) , and this amp s
PS is +-100V , maximum dissipation will occur when the output
is at a mean value of 50V.

With a 2R load , that translate in a 25A output mean current.
Thus , the disspation of the power devices will be equal to the
power dissipated by the load, that is 50 X 25 = 1250W.
At 50W/device , this mandate the use of about 12 pairs as
a minimum value.
6 pairs who do it with a 4R load , although it would be more
cautious to go to eight...

For the rest, i more or less agree that the design is not
enough tweaked.
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Old 3rd August 2010, 10:12 AM   #100
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Wahab, SOA is not about power, it's the combination of Vce and Ic that is limited, even when it is a lot below the 'official' allowed power. The max dissipation is a DC spec. Check the SOA curve.

But hey, who am I to recite the data sheet. It is everybodies own choice what he wants to build, but if you lead people to a certain path, you also have a responsibility that goes further than trying to get the most followers.

jd
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