Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State
Home Forums Rules Articles Store Gallery Blogs Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th April 2010, 08:08 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
tiefbassuebertr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: D-55629 Schwarzerden
Default Which THD Components arises if different Ube Voltages by parallel Power BjT's

...present?

This question is obviously still not investigated. Also not in relation to different Hfe values.
Both at low and higher idle currents.
Both at single ended and push-pull buffer versions.
Who knows more about this?
What spread range would still be just acceptable?
Please note, the emitter resistors in most cases lower than 1 Ohm, sometimes even not exist.

Some guys tell me, the only way to avoid unwanted THD/IM effects through the spread of Ube voltage values and the AC current gain factor "hfe" never use paralleling output power devices (no matter whether BjT's or MOSFET's; only paralleling complete amplifiers include the front end is possible without unwanted selecting of transistors and unwanted THD enhancing at the same time. This is often to observe by IC amps like TDA7293 or LM3886/LM4780. But by discrete amps this I have never see.

An other way it could be to use a large amount of paralleling (small/medium signal) transistors with emitter resistor of 10 - 30 ohms. But I am not shure. By simulation unfortunately I am not able to make a variation of Ube voltage and hfe.

Last edited by tiefbassuebertr; 8th April 2010 at 08:25 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2010, 09:10 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
tiefbassuebertr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: D-55629 Schwarzerden
No comments to this frequently used parallel connecting of output devices?
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2010, 09:23 AM   #3
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
I would also wish to know
__________________
The response of the inner ear extends to at least 200khz - Dr W. Tempest
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2010, 10:43 AM   #4
h_a is offline h_a  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
h_a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Graz, Austria
I doubt there is any significant THD-difference.

For most of the time VGS of mosfets is matched to within 100mV to guarantee that all mosfets turn on. Source degeneration resistors take care of current sharing. For bjts this is pretty pointless due to tiny variations in VBE.

Matching is not always done to decrease THD. It's mostly done for the peace of mind - and in some distortion cancellation circuits (differentials...)

But that's only the technical side of things, so the stuff you can actually measure. Others may give complementary input.

Have fun, Hannes

EDIT:
Quote:
This question is obviously still not investigated.
I dare to disagree. Even if there was data posted here, most would plainly ignore it. Matching is poor man's circuit optimization and I don't have a problem with that.

Last edited by h_a; 12th April 2010 at 10:47 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2010, 10:53 AM   #5
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_a View Post
For bjts this is pretty pointless due to tiny variations in VBE.
AFAIK, BJTs should be matched by hfe.

PS: matching supply to the intrinsec very poor linearity of active devices, esp. transistors (instead of using feedback and other compensations).
__________________
The response of the inner ear extends to at least 200khz - Dr W. Tempest
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2010, 11:05 AM   #6
h_a is offline h_a  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
h_a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Graz, Austria
Well, honestly I don't know how to react on that.

If you want to believe in that, be it so. I don't want to take the fun from the guys that even match 1% resistors.

Really, no problem with that.

A THD analyzer sees things differently.

Have fun, Hannes
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2011, 05:03 PM   #7
diyAudio Member
 
tiefbassuebertr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: D-55629 Schwarzerden
I am still looking arround for papers/articles (like e. g. AES) to this matter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2011, 05:18 PM   #8
WuYit is offline WuYit  Sweden
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
You won`t find any. There is no unequivocal answer to that essentially immaterial question.
  Reply With Quote
Old 16th May 2011, 05:28 PM   #9
DF96 is offline DF96  England
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
If parallel BJTs have slightly different Vbe or current gain then the main effect is that one will do more work than others. Give the typical local feedback around the output stage there will be little effect on distortion.

If the opposite sides of a P-P output have different gains then the main effect will be a small rise in even-order distortion. Local feedback will deal with most of this in a well-designed amp, then global feedback will finish the job.

The reason nobody seems to have done any work on this is that it is really a non-problem.
  Reply With Quote
Old 17th May 2011, 06:55 AM   #10
WuYit is offline WuYit  Sweden
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
It`s like conducting differently skilled musicians, they donīt play in unison.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High Voltage BjT's for Pre-driver stages of High Power Amplifier - Overview tiefbassuebertr Solid State 38 30th May 2011 07:37 AM
Power transformer HT/B+ voltages vivid Tubes / Valves 20 2nd July 2009 10:32 PM
Low power BJT's gareth Solid State 9 30th March 2008 09:14 PM
THD and POWER measurement mravlcax Chip Amps 2 2nd May 2007 01:22 AM
Parallel and series components in xover andy2 Multi-Way 7 22nd November 2004 04:32 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:00 PM.

Page generated in 0.10976 seconds (77.24% PHP - 22.76% MySQL) with 10 queries

Copyright Đ1999-2012 diyAudio