Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State
Home Forums Rules Articles Store Gallery Blogs Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th March 2010, 02:22 AM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dallas
Default Another strange design

I told DFenriz I'd post one weirder... Here's my 1st attempt to do so.
Look again... Everything you once knew as "normal" turned inside out!

And I got another one I'll post later. Same basic output as this one,
but with an almost but not quite conventional, differential input stage
that recovers from clipping a lot cleaner...

I didn't copy DF's input stage (yet), but I should probably try that too.
His diamond compares to a fraction of the output rather than ground
(so non-inverting). And got some strange turned backward transistor
and CCS, I havn't quite figured every possible abuse it might be good
for yet...

And this amplifier class still has no official name. Shall we call it ABa?
Its basically an AB. Except there is a constant current minimum, and
nothing but Schottky diodes is ever allowed to actually "B" turn off.

And here we further abuse Schottkys to create quasi-complimentary
square law curves. Complimentary MOSFET curves are not used, as
these IRFs are well known not to be wonderful compliments anyway.

The function of Q5-6 is to hold a fixed voltage across D1-4 that is
insufficient for all four Schottky diodes to turn completely on, thus
they are forced to sum this voltage by operating on the curve.

There are unresolved issues here keeping me about 3.5 volts from
either rail, but its still a work in progress. Current limit kicks in at 7A.
Attached Images
File Type: gif NoKlass9.gif (47.0 KB, 442 views)
Attached Files
File Type: txt NoKlas9.asc.txt (7.5 KB, 23 views)

Last edited by kenpeter; 25th March 2010 at 02:44 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2010, 02:30 AM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
sumaudioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Midwest U.S.A.
Can you say Nakamichi? I recall something that looked a lot like this in their 1976 power amp. Of course it was not FET.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2010, 02:45 AM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dallas
I can say it (in very poor Engrish), but can you post a schematic for comparison?
My choice of FETs was only cause the 4Volts VGS-On proved a convenience.
Since power devices do not turn off, and don't cross upon on native temperature
dependant curves, it hardly matters BJT or FET so long as you can bias them.
Throw some Darlingtons at it, I'm sure you could get something to stick.

Last edited by kenpeter; 25th March 2010 at 03:01 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2010, 03:08 AM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
sumaudioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Midwest U.S.A.
Sorry, do not have the schematic. There claims were similar I believe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2010, 03:32 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dallas
You mean I'm not the only one making completely delusional claims? Whoa...

Anyways, I just discovered you can cross the collectors of Q1 and Q4 to
the emitters of Q3 and Q2, change R15 and R16 to 100 Ohms. This seems
to behave a little smoother into and out of clipping.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2010, 03:36 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
sumaudioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Midwest U.S.A.
I do not believe all the claims are delusional... however this sort of high symmetry design really ask for thermal tracking and matching of transistors. Also you may wish to glue transistors together to get them to track better.

Have a look at a few of these parts and see if you can use them instead of all the discrete parts.

Intersil Home Page and search transistor array
Transistors (BJT) - Arrays | Digi-Key
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2010, 09:33 AM   #7
Elvee is offline Elvee  Belgium
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumaudioguy View Post
however this sort of high symmetry design really ask for thermal tracking and matching of transistors. Also you may wish to glue transistors together to get them to track better.
I don't think so. Not more than any standard design anyway.
D1 to 4 have to track Q5-6, but I see no problem there, Q7-10 and Q8-9 require a moderate level of tracking/matching as usual, and at first sight, the input stage would require an intersex matching between P and N devices.
But in fact, if the P and N devices are not too far apart, and the N-N and P-P pairs are matched, errors will compensate.

I like very much this design, IMHO it is very close to perfection: it is nice, clean, elegant, symetrical, well controlled, and has very smooth and clean transitions between positive and negative output.
In addition, it has a quasi rail-to-rail output, without warts or anything.
And who cares about the class? Call it "Class KP", it is deserved.
There are issues of personal taste: I do not like too much the idea of MOSFETs fighting with the schottky's to reach the Vbe of Q5 Q6, but the bias can be shifted to suit anyone's taste.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2010, 04:29 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dallas
As long as the full-on drop across the 4 Schottkys
remains less than 2 BJT emitters, I don't see any
need for tracking. I don't make any futile attempt
to regulate what small currents of an underbiased
Schottky crossing might be. Underbias is the Key.

Keep in mind the quiescent current of the Schottkys
can drift all the way down to Visch B. I don't think it
ever would, but if it did, it wouldn't matter. Its a drop
in a bucket compared to the 120mA quiescent of the
power devices.
  Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2010, 11:12 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dallas
Now here's my other, slightly more "normal" input section for your entertainment.
We got the sum/difference of four currents colliding to make two drive signals.
Attached Images
File Type: gif NoKlass11.gif (49.2 KB, 228 views)
Attached Files
File Type: txt NoKlas11.asc.txt (9.2 KB, 7 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2010, 01:38 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
sumaudioguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Midwest U.S.A.
I think I liked the first one better.
__________________
What the other guy said----Standing on the shoulders of giants.
New avatar- no more little array
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Klason & Strange, folded basshorn, acient design ? Empee Subwoofers 42 22nd August 2011 04:13 PM
Strange design. Has anyone heard them? Brisso57 Multi-Way 12 28th January 2008 01:33 PM
Brazil, and some strange laws, not too much strange! destroyer X Everything Else 0 11th September 2004 12:38 PM
Strange or what? Circlotron The Lounge 11 18th March 2004 01:28 AM
Strange phase splitter design !?!? Glass_painter Tubes / Valves 6 22nd April 2003 01:19 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:31 PM.

Page generated in 0.10869 seconds (80.08% PHP - 19.92% MySQL) with 11 queries

Copyright ©1999-2012 diyAudio