http://panasonic.co.jp/pscdd/en/product/semicon/pdf/discon.pdf
Looks like pretty much ALL their through-hole devices are being phased out. Most of their best parts (TO-126 and TO-220) were dropped a couple of years ago, but there were still some very good parts left to choose from. Now it look like if you want something besides a surface-mount device, you'll be SOL, at least from Panasonic.
This, along with all the recently dropped parts from Fairchild, is going to really start making the repair biz a lot harder. The noose seems to be tightening as far as finding suitable devices for vintage SS gear.
I'm hoping my post is an exaggeration, but ALL the devices I use for audio are marked 'SD' which means 'Planned Discontinued'. They might be around for a few more months, might be around for another year. But I can't seem to find anything in the TO-92, TO-92L, TO-126, TO-220, or even the TO-3P package, that isn't on their list as discontinued or planned discontinued.
Looks like pretty much ALL their through-hole devices are being phased out. Most of their best parts (TO-126 and TO-220) were dropped a couple of years ago, but there were still some very good parts left to choose from. Now it look like if you want something besides a surface-mount device, you'll be SOL, at least from Panasonic.
This, along with all the recently dropped parts from Fairchild, is going to really start making the repair biz a lot harder. The noose seems to be tightening as far as finding suitable devices for vintage SS gear.
I'm hoping my post is an exaggeration, but ALL the devices I use for audio are marked 'SD' which means 'Planned Discontinued'. They might be around for a few more months, might be around for another year. But I can't seem to find anything in the TO-92, TO-92L, TO-126, TO-220, or even the TO-3P package, that isn't on their list as discontinued or planned discontinued.
Yes, looks like through hole is on its way out. A lot of manufacturers have dropped these packages. I've started using SMD in my designs and its ok once you get used to it - even for small signal. however, the problem is for VAS stages - looks like the only way forward will be to come up with some creative heatsinking ideas.
As for repair - I agree, the noose is tightening.
Pity - same story as JFETS.
In its place we'll get . . . IC power amps and class D.
Ironically, tubes keep on comin' back!
As for repair - I agree, the noose is tightening.
Pity - same story as JFETS.
In its place we'll get . . . IC power amps and class D.
Ironically, tubes keep on comin' back!
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I agree, it's inevitable that through hole parts will go the same way that those other parts went, the ones that plug into heat resistant bases and glow when they are in use.
Who wants to stock up on NOS power transistors, keep them in their original packaging and try to get the rare one's and then try to attach to them a reputation for good sound so you can sell them at outrageous prices
I also agree with others opinions that Class D will become ubiquitous (if it hasn't already). It's energy efficient, it's improving as time goes by and it's already good enough for the majority of commercial applications. I would also join others in predicting the demise of the Class AB amplifier that we are currently most familiar with as the dominating technology; it will move to Class D.
I made my first pcb this year, it was my first amplifier, Class AB. It will very likely be my last pcb for through hole. I'm rather glad that I made it. I had always wondered about such things since I was interested in electronics as a kid and now I finally made something I should have done decades ago.
The amateur radio DIY community embraced SMD years ago and most other electronics hobbyists make very little that doesn't have an ic in the middle. We are the last hold-out
Who wants to stock up on NOS power transistors, keep them in their original packaging and try to get the rare one's and then try to attach to them a reputation for good sound so you can sell them at outrageous prices
I also agree with others opinions that Class D will become ubiquitous (if it hasn't already). It's energy efficient, it's improving as time goes by and it's already good enough for the majority of commercial applications. I would also join others in predicting the demise of the Class AB amplifier that we are currently most familiar with as the dominating technology; it will move to Class D.
I made my first pcb this year, it was my first amplifier, Class AB. It will very likely be my last pcb for through hole. I'm rather glad that I made it. I had always wondered about such things since I was interested in electronics as a kid and now I finally made something I should have done decades ago.
The amateur radio DIY community embraced SMD years ago and most other electronics hobbyists make very little that doesn't have an ic in the middle. We are the last hold-out
It's really just a matter of creating a massive stock of the parts we like. I sure have done so, as I saw this coming years ago. First the TO-3 devices were discontinued, then the TO-247 more or less went that way, now the rest are to follow shortly.
I also have made a repair stock for anything I've made, so spare parts are not really gonna be an issue for the next century or so
Magura
I also have made a repair stock for anything I've made, so spare parts are not really gonna be an issue for the next century or so
Magura
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isn't that just what the tube guys said too...
p.s. better hang on to those soldering irons and solder - if you are not already using lead free. The move to lead free is another backward-incompatibility risk.
TO-247, TO-220 and bigger stuff like ISOTOP and industrial transistor packages are another story, they are used in almost every high power switching circuit too so I don't think they are going to change. If some company is discontinuing these packages, in my opinion it's because they want to focus in ICs and small signal stuff and they are just not interested in producing power transistors (or they are selling production to other companies).
International Rectifier is trying to introduce DirectFET packages to replace TO-220, but they are a pain to use, and there are known reliability issues.
Soldering irons are becoming half of the story too, being the other half hot air stations I do most of the SMD work with hot air (and I don't mean the kind that comes out of the mounts of the politicians )
Soldering and unsoldering a SO-8 package with hot air is much easier than reworking a DIP-8 with soldering iron and pump. It's even easier for packages with more leads.
International Rectifier is trying to introduce DirectFET packages to replace TO-220, but they are a pain to use, and there are known reliability issues.
Soldering irons are becoming half of the story too, being the other half hot air stations
I do most of the SMD work with hot air (and I don't mean the kind that comes out of the mounts of the politicians )Soldering and unsoldering a SO-8 package with hot air is much easier than reworking a DIP-8 with soldering iron and pump. It's even easier for packages with more leads.
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Demand will drop, supply will adjust by shrinking. Without economies of scale there will be a smaller number of niche players and prices will be much higher.
Today people go on about expensive great sounding tubes. One day people will talk the same way about power BJTs. Perhaps power FETs will survive yet since they are already player in the Class D playground.
Things always change. Maybe new speaker technology will require different kinds of amplifiers.
Today people go on about expensive great sounding tubes. One day people will talk the same way about power BJTs. Perhaps power FETs will survive yet since they are already player in the Class D playground.
Things always change. Maybe new speaker technology will require different kinds of amplifiers.
Now, if we could only convince Eva to whip us up a nice DIY class D amp project that uses all the easy parts and processes to keep us going for another 30 years or so...
..Todd
It's already my intention to release to public domain complete plans (including some design documentation, PCBs and magnetics specs) for class D modules and off-line SMPS, intended to be reliable but not very high power or very complex, just for divulgation purposes.
It would be some kind of class D Leach amp, a tribute to him and others because I learned a lot from these online projects when I was a complete newbie. Unfortunately I must finish a few other projects first, so this may take 1-2 years to happen.
I have a class D design made using comparators, opamps, flipflops, various logic. That I am working on at the moment. Looks like it might be ok for subwoofer duty (delta sigma modulator so SNR goes down with increasing frequancy pretty bad). I will upload some scematics if the prototype works (July/August).
Also SMD small signal transistors are fine just imposible to prototype with
Also SMD small signal transistors are fine just imposible to prototype with
I was 12 when they said tubes would disappear.....
Tubes were stone age parts, the solid state arrived to stay and to banish the stupid tubes from our sigth!.....And you can find them till now a days.
Fets arrived and people said they would sound alike tubes..we are trying to have this sound, maybe next 50 years.
Boys, this is electronic terrorism to say those things, do not worry, the good BGTs will be available for more 50 years to come, if not in T0-220 or other case, you will find them in another way.
Panasonic stops and can redraw if market continue to order these parts, they want to sell.
It is possible the Germanium return, and chips will be bigger, because the small cases to sink heat are not good... just a moment in time... things will enter new cicles... class D exists for long time, and even beeing efficient, smaller, cheaper and so on, people still prefering analog amplifiers, because humans listen analog, we do not listen numbers, so, the encoding and decoding is an overcomplication.... you can do whatever you want, but you will have to encode to analogic..we know this cannot be so good as the old Vinyl playing with all these pops it can produce.
I want to assemble a digital, but i want it all discrete.
Forum will be "Ancient BGTs, the solid state section", and our grandchildren will be building Class A, i also dislike, but has some sex appeal, it is huge and hot!
Also the world have finished several times, those were the forecasts, and we are still here.
Well, i always assembled in a SMD way, no problems to me.
regards,
Carlos
Tubes were stone age parts, the solid state arrived to stay and to banish the stupid tubes from our sigth!.....And you can find them till now a days.
Fets arrived and people said they would sound alike tubes..we are trying to have this sound, maybe next 50 years.
Boys, this is electronic terrorism to say those things, do not worry, the good BGTs will be available for more 50 years to come, if not in T0-220 or other case, you will find them in another way.
Panasonic stops and can redraw if market continue to order these parts, they want to sell.
It is possible the Germanium return, and chips will be bigger, because the small cases to sink heat are not good... just a moment in time... things will enter new cicles... class D exists for long time, and even beeing efficient, smaller, cheaper and so on, people still prefering analog amplifiers, because humans listen analog, we do not listen numbers, so, the encoding and decoding is an overcomplication.... you can do whatever you want, but you will have to encode to analogic..we know this cannot be so good as the old Vinyl playing with all these pops it can produce.
I want to assemble a digital, but i want it all discrete.
Forum will be "Ancient BGTs, the solid state section", and our grandchildren will be building Class A, i also dislike, but has some sex appeal, it is huge and hot!
Also the world have finished several times, those were the forecasts, and we are still here.
Well, i always assembled in a SMD way, no problems to me.
regards,
Carlos
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No Carlos, bipolar transistors are not likely to become outdated in a long time. There are new generations of low voltage BJTs that perform very good, both in terms of linearity and switching, I use them in my circuits.
For example check DSS4320T, I use it both as an emitter follower current booster and as a common emitter switch (and in the latter task it turns on and off extremely fast, around 20ns plus storage time, while as a buffer it does 3A pulses without problem). Now check how small is the package...
And tubes are not "stupid", they have just become inefficient for many tasks except high power RF and microwave amplification (I say that tubes are inefficient because they are big, costly to produce and they waste several watts of heat even when they are doing absolutely *nothing*). You would need a truck to carry your nice digital "youtube" cammera, and a dedicated power plant to make it work, if just the video encoding and decoding was done with tubes
If you have some memory, the problem with germanium was limited high frequency response and very limited operating temperature (90ºC or so) so they are not likely to return, but I think they are still used for some specific tasks (at least germanium diodes) due to the low junction voltage.
Have you heard about SiC (silicon carbide)? This is a new semiconductor material that may render current silicon technnology outdated (and this implies phasing out all the high power diode, MOSFET and IGBT stuff being sold now, that you don't like, it seems). I got a few IDT16S60C SiC diode samples that are supposed solve some of the problems with equivalent silicon diodes in fast switching circuits.
And finally, study some biology. We do not "listen analog", the ear (and our brain) works in some kind digital mode, it detects the presence and absence of a range of frequencies and the amount of each (with some limitations due to masking) and this information is transmitted to the brain as pulses like a MP3 encoder (but higher quality than the stuff that you download for free on p2p networks).
For example check DSS4320T, I use it both as an emitter follower current booster and as a common emitter switch (and in the latter task it turns on and off extremely fast, around 20ns plus storage time, while as a buffer it does 3A pulses without problem). Now check how small is the package...
And tubes are not "stupid", they have just become inefficient for many tasks except high power RF and microwave amplification (I say that tubes are inefficient because they are big, costly to produce and they waste several watts of heat even when they are doing absolutely *nothing*). You would need a truck to carry your nice digital "youtube" cammera, and a dedicated power plant to make it work, if just the video encoding and decoding was done with tubes
If you have some memory, the problem with germanium was limited high frequency response and very limited operating temperature (90ºC or so) so they are not likely to return, but I think they are still used for some specific tasks (at least germanium diodes) due to the low junction voltage.
Have you heard about SiC (silicon carbide)? This is a new semiconductor material that may render current silicon technnology outdated (and this implies phasing out all the high power diode, MOSFET and IGBT stuff being sold now, that you don't like, it seems). I got a few IDT16S60C SiC diode samples that are supposed solve some of the problems with equivalent silicon diodes in fast switching circuits.
And finally, study some biology. We do not "listen analog", the ear (and our brain) works in some kind digital mode, it detects the presence and absence of a range of frequencies and the amount of each (with some limitations due to masking) and this information is transmitted to the brain as pulses
like a MP3 encoder (but higher quality than the stuff that you download for free on p2p networks).
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