Hello there. Guys has anyone tried to build such a powerfull ampo, not for a specific reason but just for the fun of it?!,recently i was looking in ebay and saw this:
BGR Blazer X10 1000W RMS Monoblock Power Amplifier DIY
BGR Blazer X10 1000W RMS Monoblock Power Amplifier DIY - eBay (item 150371286906 end time Dec-05-09 23:51:03 PST)
Using high quality SANKEN 5x 2SA1295 & 5x 2SC3264 ...
BGR Blazer X10 1000W RMS Monoblock Power Amplifier DIY
BGR Blazer X10 1000W RMS Monoblock Power Amplifier DIY - eBay (item 150371286906 end time Dec-05-09 23:51:03 PST)
Using high quality SANKEN 5x 2SA1295 & 5x 2SC3264 ...
well i do have the proper box, with a HUGE heatsink measuring 50cm x 21cm height, on each side, and thats why i was thinking about it.,..as for the torroid how big it might need?..somewhere around 1000VA each chanel is ok i guess right?..i may make a phonecall to know the price for 2 nice torroids..
I am mostly concerned on what should i take really good care of, as 1000W arent a small deal and i dont want to endup with a burned module..
my box is this one:
www.modushop.biz/ecommerce/05500028_0000.jpg
1x Frontal Panel in aluminium 10mm oxidised black 450 mm
1x Back in metal painted black anti-scratch
2x Lateral Heatsink oxidised black C°/W 0,11
2x Covers in metal painted black anti-scratch
Width: 450mm internal 360mm
Depth: 500mm Internal height: 210 mm
Weight:: 18,0 KG
from modu.it
i actually got it as a gift..
I am mostly concerned on what should i take really good care of, as 1000W arent a small deal and i dont want to endup with a burned module..
my box is this one:
www.modushop.biz/ecommerce/05500028_0000.jpg
1x Frontal Panel in aluminium 10mm oxidised black 450 mm
1x Back in metal painted black anti-scratch
2x Lateral Heatsink oxidised black C°/W 0,11
2x Covers in metal painted black anti-scratch
Width: 450mm internal 360mm
Depth: 500mm Internal height: 210 mm
Weight:: 18,0 KG
from modu.it
i actually got it as a gift..
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I agree , if the OP devices are not fakes .. a VERY good price.
2 issues stand out with this package , actually 3 , but the 3'rd is understandable.(ip issues)
1. NOT 1kw - 5 pairs of those sankens do not even come near the SOA (attached below) to do 1KW... About the same SOA as 21193/4's.
300w continuous , maybe 1kw 10ms pulse (4R load ... maybe
)
2. The circuit , while it would work , is not too refined for a amp of this caliber. Running the VAS at 10+ma and just using a low HFE type1 EF would make this amp perform horrible with a demanding load. It is similar to my "supersym" (cascoded LTP , same VAS, outputs as drivers) but very amateurish in its design. Also the VAS to-126 devices will be very hot as designed with no heatsink. The OP device drivers should have been on the main HS and he should have used a triple OP , this is why .47R emitter resistors are used .. bad thermal stability.
the 3'rd - Schematic is wrong (cascode is biased wrong).
At $5.00 apiece for the sankens , the package is a deal , but makes me wonder .
OS
2 issues stand out with this package , actually 3 , but the 3'rd is understandable.(ip issues)
1. NOT 1kw - 5 pairs of those sankens do not even come near the SOA (attached below) to do 1KW...
About the same SOA as 21193/4's.300w continuous , maybe 1kw 10ms pulse (4R load ... maybe
)2. The circuit , while it would work , is not too refined for a amp of this caliber. Running the VAS at 10+ma and just using a low HFE type1 EF would make this amp perform horrible with a demanding load. It is similar to my "supersym" (cascoded LTP , same VAS, outputs as drivers) but very amateurish in its design. Also the VAS to-126 devices will be very hot as designed with no heatsink. The OP device drivers should have been on the main HS and he should have used a triple OP , this is why .47R emitter resistors are used .. bad thermal stability.
the 3'rd - Schematic is wrong (cascode is biased wrong).
At $5.00 apiece for the sankens , the package is a deal , but makes me wonder
. OS
Attachments
1. NOT 1kw - 5 pairs of those sankens do not even come near the SOA (attached below) to do 1KW...
300w continuous , maybe 1kw 10ms pulse (4R load ... maybe
OS
Output transistor power dissipation is quite complex.
1/ Typically the output transistors take 40% power and the load 60%
2/ The output transistor is only on for 1/2 cycle.
3/ The power dissipated on a half cycle rises to a midway voltage then declines after that to the power rail.
I agree , it is, but this amp is overrated. The designer seems to have just multiplied the device dissipation X5. The "brother of quasi" with 4 pair of MJ15024/5's is only 300 watt. My amp with 5 pair 21193/4's is 300+ at best.
The only true 1KW project I have seen is ESP's "insane" project 117 ... Project 117
9 pair 15024/5's or MJW21193/4's , along with a proper triple to prevent beta droop with difficult loads. (attached)
OS
The only true 1KW project I have seen is ESP's "insane" project 117 ... Project 117
9 pair 15024/5's or MJW21193/4's , along with a proper triple to prevent beta droop with difficult loads. (attached)
OS
Attachments
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My friend i am still waiting for the corect torroid as they sent me a wrong one.. i will update for sure at the topic i started!..hopefully this coming weekend i will have it ready as the shop i ordered the torroid said i will have it tommorow..
hmm..the overal conclusion that i get is that this doesnt seems as a very good project..i dont want to spend much on something that perhaps is badly designed..
What about this one using 4 x TDA7293 ?...
350W Mono TDA7293 BTL + NE5532 Power Amplifier Kit -New - eBay (item 260507616840 end time Nov-25-09 19:46:25 PST)
pros?cons?...
I do want to build something powerfull. i always wanted!...since now i am very satisfied by my Gainclone so i want something else to play with!!..
What about this one using 4 x TDA7293 ?...
350W Mono TDA7293 BTL + NE5532 Power Amplifier Kit -New - eBay (item 260507616840 end time Nov-25-09 19:46:25 PST)
pros?cons?...
I do want to build something powerfull. i always wanted!...since now i am very satisfied by my Gainclone so i want something else to play with!!..
What are you driving ??? (speakerwise) 300 watts is awesome and scary with either music or HT use (movies) on any normal speaker system.
The only speaker I know that could honestly handle a true 1KW RMS is this one AlternativeDVD.com Audiopulse AX12Q1 AXIS 12" Quad Coil Subwoofer 1 Ohm
And it cost $650
Try the quasi amps (nmos350/500) or carlos's DX turbo
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/43331-power-amp-under-development.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/124931-dhr-dx-high-resolution-turbo.html
Take your time, look around. For a light load, the amp in this thread would work and might even be better than average (OEM) .. but not at 1KW !!
$$$ wise , it is a steal (if the sankens are real ?? )
For good kits , try High End Audio MOSFET Amplifiers
OS
The only speaker I know that could honestly handle a true 1KW RMS is this one AlternativeDVD.com Audiopulse AX12Q1 AXIS 12" Quad Coil Subwoofer 1 Ohm
And it cost $650
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Try the quasi amps (nmos350/500) or carlos's DX turbo
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/43331-power-amp-under-development.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/124931-dhr-dx-high-resolution-turbo.html
Take your time, look around. For a light load, the amp in this thread would work and might even be better than average (OEM) .. but not at 1KW !!
$$$ wise , it is a steal (if the sankens are real ?? )
For good kits , try High End Audio MOSFET Amplifiers
OS
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sifis ...here is a few facts about this amp .....
the amplifier you posted in the first place has a few things on the neg side and some others on the pos side beyond that you may chosse on your own .....
---this is an sziklai issue .... meaning that the amp is
--- more effective than normal EFP amps
--- sonics especially in high frequency is not the best
--- sziklai eventhough more effective also quite dificult to stabilize
--- 470R/5W resistors do that ( stabilize the amplifier since the output stage will act in its own will if let free ) but also the specific resistors are also sonic killers
---at 70+70 volts this circuit will produce about 330-350W @ 8 ohm resistive load @ 1 khz
--- at 4 ohms though even though the circuit will produce 700 W i dont really thing that transistors will be happy with so much power ( i dont have the time to calculate how safe is that )
generally given as a fact that this pcb has good parts regarding quality it will make an excelent sub woofer amplifier that will work happily for years if power demands will not exceed the above specs ....
on the other hand if you want my advice in this levels of power circuit of the amplifier is only 30% of the deal ....the rest 70% will have to be circuits that monitor voltage and curents here and there to guarantee safe operation ....
finally the only diy amp that i ve seen here in the forum that is complete enough
(having allready installed all protection methods ) while producing all this much power is the Dirty Harry made by our Greek member FOTIOS ....
for example also greek made amp Quasi is capable of producing very good ammounts of power eventhough all npn made and simply done but peripherals arround it like VI limmiters and or other protection methods are not there ....
In real life and very surprizingly i have made so far 4 Quasi amps as seen in the Quasi web pages and threads that i use in small Pa applications that is very expected that are going to be abused and none of them failed so far
( as we speak i am working in a LDR based input limmiter to install to them even though it seems that there is no need for that )
the amplifier you posted in the first place has a few things on the neg side and some others on the pos side beyond that you may chosse on your own .....
---this is an sziklai issue .... meaning that the amp is
--- more effective than normal EFP amps
--- sonics especially in high frequency is not the best
--- sziklai eventhough more effective also quite dificult to stabilize
--- 470R/5W resistors do that ( stabilize the amplifier since the output stage will act in its own will if let free ) but also the specific resistors are also sonic killers
---at 70+70 volts this circuit will produce about 330-350W @ 8 ohm resistive load @ 1 khz
--- at 4 ohms though even though the circuit will produce 700 W i dont really thing that transistors will be happy with so much power ( i dont have the time to calculate how safe is that )
generally given as a fact that this pcb has good parts regarding quality it will make an excelent sub woofer amplifier that will work happily for years if power demands will not exceed the above specs ....
on the other hand if you want my advice in this levels of power circuit of the amplifier is only 30% of the deal ....the rest 70% will have to be circuits that monitor voltage and curents here and there to guarantee safe operation ....
finally the only diy amp that i ve seen here in the forum that is complete enough
(having allready installed all protection methods ) while producing all this much power is the Dirty Harry made by our Greek member FOTIOS ....
for example also greek made amp Quasi is capable of producing very good ammounts of power eventhough all npn made and simply done but peripherals arround it like VI limmiters and or other protection methods are not there ....
In real life and very surprizingly i have made so far 4 Quasi amps as seen in the Quasi web pages and threads that i use in small Pa applications that is very expected that are going to be abused and none of them failed so far
( as we speak i am working in a LDR based input limmiter to install to them even though it seems that there is no need for that )
yeah i realized that it isnt a smart idea to work with these modules...
but noone speaks about the 4x tda7293 solution..
Well another point is that i am looking for a ready made module as i dont have any experience in schematics deign or anything around pcb making or designing....i just have completed some diy kits mainly from Smartkit and C&A Electronics..i only have good soldering skills and i believe i can build a fairly good PSU...
...sifis ....you have nothing to loose ( hopefully ) by buliding i big machine ...the thing is tha macines like that require instruments ,skills , and a lot of know how especially if some trouble comes up
take one step at the time .... forget both C&A and smart kits thier both rubish and designs of 1821 .... still you can upgrade those with better parts and a few other corrections but there is not much youmay get from them
both C&A and smart kits dont have amps more than real 100 wats ... so go for the "next step " like built a real 150W amplifier or 200 w dont for the kilowatt yet ....give it some time and go one step at a time ....
built a quasi, or go for any design from the ESP pages Rod's designs are very honest produce exactly what they say in their specs , have available pcbs , all that in fair prizes
or go for a P101 mosfet ...a simple amd very nice amp
regards sakis
take one step at the time .... forget both C&A and smart kits thier both rubish and designs of 1821 .... still you can upgrade those with better parts and a few other corrections but there is not much youmay get from them
both C&A and smart kits dont have amps more than real 100 wats ... so go for the "next step " like built a real 150W amplifier or 200 w dont for the kilowatt yet ....give it some time and go one step at a time ....
built a quasi, or go for any design from the ESP pages Rod's designs are very honest produce exactly what they say in their specs , have available pcbs , all that in fair prizes
or go for a P101 mosfet ...a simple amd very nice amp
regards sakis
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