Jim, you've invested quite a bit in a nice amp and nice speakers. Please connect them with a low Z link ( (0 + j0)R ) as they were intended. A 16 awg or better 14, or 10. If you don't like this 'sound', I have to ask what is THE 'sound'. Consider also moving your furniture around in your room or the effect of drappes, etc.
Using CAT5 is a non sense. Might as well use CAT4, who knows, it may smooth the sound as it is lower bandwidth! And what does this means really? CAT5 is supposedely high bandwith, what f and at what load? (Why not use a RG-58 cable? I remember now, RG-58 is black and make the sound somewhat darker.) But if you insist, there is NO arm at using any wire that provides a reasonably low resistance (pure resistive component) and low impedance (L or C). Just make sure that the links are stable mechanically (corrosion and vibration) and that + and - will never touch. Forget about a Zobel network. What would be the intend? Render the Cat5 link electrically similar to a ZIP? This would defeat the purpose isn't it?
If your amp was designed seriously, it should be stable with Z variations. If you are not sure, please post your diagram or make and we'll look at it.
Good luck
Using CAT5 is a non sense. Might as well use CAT4, who knows, it may smooth the sound as it is lower bandwidth! And what does this means really? CAT5 is supposedely high bandwith, what f and at what load? (Why not use a RG-58 cable? I remember now, RG-58 is black and make the sound somewhat darker.) But if you insist, there is NO arm at using any wire that provides a reasonably low resistance (pure resistive component) and low impedance (L or C). Just make sure that the links are stable mechanically (corrosion and vibration) and that + and - will never touch. Forget about a Zobel network. What would be the intend? Render the Cat5 link electrically similar to a ZIP? This would defeat the purpose isn't it?
If your amp was designed seriously, it should be stable with Z variations. If you are not sure, please post your diagram or make and we'll look at it.
Good luck
Jim,
I re-read the thread and saw your list. Below are my opinions:
--Sansui 350A (from about 1972)
--Sansui 4000 (from about 1972)
--Yamaha CR-1000 (from about 1977)
You are very lucky to have access to these guys. IMHO, the quasi-comp output stages of this era is far from today's HI-FI, but their sonic signature filled our teenage years so we love them. I honestly think that slight variations in Z (L+C) will not be noticeable given the already strong sonic signature. However, these are stability monsters with ample NFB. I do not have real data but would connect a cat5 to them without more concerns.
-- Sonic Impact T-amp, gen 2
Uhmm. Not sure. Someone else may comment on this. I would put forward that a Class D amp depends heavily on its load. I would be cautious about adding C or L components but then again, you are driving a speaker that is a big L. so.... I don't have an opinion.
--MiniWatt tube amp
Again no opinion because I know only silicon devices.
Good luck.
I re-read the thread and saw your list. Below are my opinions:
--Sansui 350A (from about 1972)
--Sansui 4000 (from about 1972)
--Yamaha CR-1000 (from about 1977)
You are very lucky to have access to these guys. IMHO, the quasi-comp output stages of this era is far from today's HI-FI, but their sonic signature filled our teenage years so we love them. I honestly think that slight variations in Z (L+C) will not be noticeable given the already strong sonic signature. However, these are stability monsters with ample NFB. I do not have real data but would connect a cat5 to them without more concerns.
-- Sonic Impact T-amp, gen 2
Uhmm. Not sure. Someone else may comment on this. I would put forward that a Class D amp depends heavily on its load. I would be cautious about adding C or L components but then again, you are driving a speaker that is a big L. so.... I don't have an opinion.
--MiniWatt tube amp
Again no opinion because I know only silicon devices.
Good luck.
Before going to the effort of braiding 3 sets of CAT 5 together, try a pair of single strands (when you go to buy the roll, solid core, plenum grade (Teflon) is preferred). The higher resistance of the cable will help lower the damping factor on the those 1970s SS amps.
Is your Yamaha one of the ones with a Class A mode?
dave
Thanks Suricat. Two of the three classic receivers (4000, CR-1000) I bought in the '70s as an adult. I never could have afforded them as a teenager. The 350A was purchased used a few years ago to upgrade my office rig. And yes, I do like their sound! The only speaker they haven't played nice with is the F120a.
Dave: I bought a 500' spool of CAT5, so I have plenty to experiment with--and I plan to! Single pair, single cable, multi-cable... cheap fun!
Dave: I bought a 500' spool of CAT5, so I have plenty to experiment with--and I plan to! Single pair, single cable, multi-cable... cheap fun!
Isn't it wonderful to be able to play on the back's of the computer industries consumption of billions of miles of this stuff
dave
I to am very interested in Cat5 speaker cable.
Trying to work out the best way to link my active system:
Source - Pre-amp - Behringer DCX2496 - Rotel RB 956 AX 6 channel power amp, (using 5 as one channel is broken) - Active speaker left and right, Peerless dome tweeter, Peerless 5.5" mid, and one 15" Eminence Beta 15" sub in the centre.
How on earth do i build cat5 cable to these drivers? Do tweeters require less cable, guage?
Initial plans were to braid 3 runs for each driver, or perhaps bi-wire style braid 6.
However the plans below, through me slighty:
Anyone know how many lengths of cat5 i need for individual drivers, 1=tweet, 3=mid, 4=woofer?
Trying to work out the best way to link my active system:
Source - Pre-amp - Behringer DCX2496 - Rotel RB 956 AX 6 channel power amp, (using 5 as one channel is broken) - Active speaker left and right, Peerless dome tweeter, Peerless 5.5" mid, and one 15" Eminence Beta 15" sub in the centre.
How on earth do i build cat5 cable to these drivers? Do tweeters require less cable, guage?
Initial plans were to braid 3 runs for each driver, or perhaps bi-wire style braid 6.
However the plans below, through me slighty:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Anyone know how many lengths of cat5 i need for individual drivers, 1=tweet, 3=mid, 4=woofer?
go for the lowest inductance and ohmic impedance provided that the capacitance of that cable does not make your amp oszillate. the cables should be as short as possible. low inductance matters more in the treble and low ohmic loss matters more in the bass. i would give all cables the same parameters.
Banned
Joined 2002
Id say this one
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Thanks, seems to me the most logical route.
Do you think increasing the number of cat5 cables would help/hinder?
2 = tweet, 4 = mid
Best way to control them, braid all together? or separate (would allow for more tweaking in the future)
Would the open baffle 15" woofer require even more?
Thanks.
Do you think increasing the number of cat5 cables would help/hinder?
2 = tweet, 4 = mid
Best way to control them, braid all together? or separate (would allow for more tweaking in the future)
Would the open baffle 15" woofer require even more?
Thanks.
Banned
Joined 2002
Id say try your thoughts
One would think that the 15" driver would need more than one single strand of copper wire, because of the current to move that 15" driver, so I would say start with 2.Does anyone have any clear info on which is better/more suited, Cat5e or Cat6?
I have searched endlessly for info, Cat6 appears to have a thicker gauge but similar structure. If its a higher spec for network data, clearer signal for audio?
I have found Cat6 cheaper in 50m spools on ebay for £22, maplins Cat5e would work out +£60.
Cat 6 LSOH/LSZH LAN Network Cable 50m reel/roll/coil on eBay (end time 09-Dec-09 09:39:44 GMT)
Big fan of the purple sheathing!
I have searched endlessly for info, Cat6 appears to have a thicker gauge but similar structure. If its a higher spec for network data, clearer signal for audio?
I have found Cat6 cheaper in 50m spools on ebay for £22, maplins Cat5e would work out +£60.
Cat 6 LSOH/LSZH LAN Network Cable 50m reel/roll/coil on eBay (end time 09-Dec-09 09:39:44 GMT)
Big fan of the purple sheathing!
Banned
Joined 2002
We use this stuff at work for when we have to setup hdmi balin's
VERY NICE STUFF!! but super expensive!If you need any Cat5e (purple sheathing) PM me, I've got hundreds of metres of the stuff, literally.
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Banned
Joined 2002
Ok, 50metres of Lindy Cat6 grey cable bought for £15 from eBay. 30pence per metre.
Should be enough to experiment with configurations.
Gonna buy some purple heatshrink for the ends.
Ill post how it goes.
Thanks for the help, and if anyone has any bright ideas as to configurations, please let me know.
Should be enough to experiment with configurations.
Gonna buy some purple heatshrink for the ends.
Ill post how it goes.
Thanks for the help, and if anyone has any bright ideas as to configurations, please let me know.
I made some speaker cables with 12 braided strands of Cat5, 7 ft long, and measured the capacitance since I'd heard this could be an issue. It was about the same as my AudioQuest cable of the same length, so I don't worry about it.
Also I will say that one of the best sounding systems I've heard used single runs of 26g wire, driven by a 80 wpc Jolida amp. This goes against everything I've been told about speaker wire/cable of course...
Also I will say that one of the best sounding systems I've heard used single runs of 26g wire, driven by a 80 wpc Jolida amp. This goes against everything I've been told about speaker wire/cable of course...
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Ok, 4 hours of rather tedious work and i have one run of 6 Braid Cat6 cable done.
I went for Option C, but doubled up. Made like TNT Triple T, but with 4 cables mid, and two for the tweeter.
It works, is playing some Diana Krall CD now. First impressions, it is alot quieter than the other cable, in terms of volume. Sound seems quite open, perhaps more neutral, but the difference in volume makes a comparison hard, as the old 'Audio Innovation Micro freeby from richer sounds cable' has more depth, bass and richness. The speakers are also on completely different stand, heights, ones in a corner, the other isn't, so the test is not exactly fair.
Perhaps ill make the left channel tomorrow, and do a bit of jigging so its and even.
Hoping a few days of use will run the cables in. Pics below:
Grey cable in 4m lengths
Marking the two runs at either end for the tweeter.
Test cut
taped together, first extraction of wires, with plastic middle sheath and fibre glass strands
Braiding with the help of a hand clamp
Seperated Mid/Tweeter 30cm so they can fit into the power amp.
Underestimated the size of the cat6, the purple heatshrink could only go over two cables. I do like the colours. Fitted gold platted banana plugs on the mid cables (only had 8)
Installed, poking out the back of my speakers.
Supporting the tweeter, the end of the cables are just wrapped around the tweeters posts.
For £16 and some time, is believe its worth trying. Hopefully the sound will open up, and improve with some run-in time.
I used 49 of the 50m so not enough to make a cable for my sub. Maybe next week.
I went for Option C, but doubled up. Made like TNT Triple T, but with 4 cables mid, and two for the tweeter.
It works, is playing some Diana Krall CD now. First impressions, it is alot quieter than the other cable, in terms of volume. Sound seems quite open, perhaps more neutral, but the difference in volume makes a comparison hard, as the old 'Audio Innovation Micro freeby from richer sounds cable' has more depth, bass and richness. The speakers are also on completely different stand, heights, ones in a corner, the other isn't, so the test is not exactly fair.
Perhaps ill make the left channel tomorrow, and do a bit of jigging so its and even.
Hoping a few days of use will run the cables in. Pics below:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Grey cable in 4m lengths
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Marking the two runs at either end for the tweeter.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Test cut
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
taped together, first extraction of wires, with plastic middle sheath and fibre glass strands
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Braiding with the help of a hand clamp
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Seperated Mid/Tweeter 30cm so they can fit into the power amp.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Underestimated the size of the cat6, the purple heatshrink could only go over two cables. I do like the colours. Fitted gold platted banana plugs on the mid cables (only had 8)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Installed, poking out the back of my speakers.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Supporting the tweeter, the end of the cables are just wrapped around the tweeters posts.
For £16 and some time, is believe its worth trying. Hopefully the sound will open up, and improve with some run-in time.
I used 49 of the 50m so not enough to make a cable for my sub. Maybe next week.
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