My Experience with HD600 vs AKG K701 vs Denon AH-D5000 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Solid State

Solid State Talk all about solid state amplification.

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th November 2009, 10:19 AM   #1
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default My Experience with HD600 vs AKG K701 vs Denon AH-D5000

After deciding to build Patrick's (EUVL) DAO headphone amp. I thought it was time to buy some new headphones.
So last week I checked out 3 headphones within my price range:
1 Sennheiser HD600 Sennheiser USA - Around Ear Headphones HD 600 - highest quality for DAT, DVD, MD, CD, players - Private Audio
2 AKG K701 AKG Personal Audio - K 701
3 Denon AH-D5000 Denon USA | AH-D5000

Source was an Arcam CD37 cd player Find out more about the FMJ and Solo product ranges
Headphone Amp was a Musical Fidelity X-Can V8 Musical Fidelity

My cds used to assess the performance of these hadphones were:
1. Maceo Parker - Roots and Groove Maceo Parker Roots & Grooves
2. Weather Report - Black Market Black Market (album) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OK the first thing I want to say here is, I did not expect to hear big differences between these headphones in this sought of price range. Well I was very wrong about that, the differences were immediately obvious.

First up I put in Maceo Parker's Roots and Groove disc 2. This album has some nice bass playing and drumming which has been well recorded.
I plugged in the AKG K701 headphones, and really enjoyed what I heard. The amount of detail was excellent. These headphones really brought out the best of this recording.

I next plugged in the sennheiser HD600. I got horrible shock here. They sounded so bad I did not put them on again for the rest of the testing.

I then plugged in the Denon AH-D5000 and was immediately impressed by the overall sound and presentation, however when I went back to the AKG I noticed there was something special in the way the AKG could really separate instruments and the level of detail with drums and cymbals was very impressive.

I then put in Weather Report's Black Market album and went straight to track 6 (Barbary Coast). I had the AKG K701 phones on.
Again I was surprised to find myself unimpressed. This is one of my all time favourite tracks, and was left feeling totally bored.
I put the Denon's back on and OH YEAH, awsome sounding bass playing, also the feeling of actually being there was incredible.

In the end I couldn't make up my mind. If I had the money I would buy both.
With a really good recording the AKG K701 sound excellent, with an ordinary recording they sound ordinary.
The Denon's have a bit of magic in the sense they tend to bring an ordinary recording to life, almost like being live at the concert.
However on a really good (balanced) recording the bass tends to dominate slighly to hide some of the details of the other instruments.

If I could only choose one, I would probably go with the Denons mainly because it made Barbary Coast sound very special indeed.

Last edited by Melon Head; 17th November 2009 at 10:21 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2009, 05:55 AM   #2
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
I thought I should give a score for the headphones against the test cd's to try and quantify my experience and hopefully clarify for those that might be interested.
Here goes

Test CD 1: Maceo Parker - Roots and Groove
AKG K701 - Score 10/10
Sennheiser HD600 - Score 4/10
Denon AH D5000 - Score 8.5/10

Test CD 2: Weather Report - Black Market
AKG K701 - Score 6.5/10
Sennheiser HD600 - Score (Did not Test)
Denon AH D5000 - Score 10/10

Last edited by Melon Head; 18th November 2009 at 06:08 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2009, 09:34 AM   #3
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sydney
Default HD600 vs. AKG K701 vs. Denon AH-D5000

thanh1973
You can not judge the performance of various headphones based on how they sound with one headphone amplifier.The amplifier you used has a quoted output impedance of only a couple of ohms. The headphones you are trying to compare have very different input impedances, and different driving impedance requirements .The Denon AH-D5000 are 25 ohms input impedance, the AKG K701 are 62 ohms, and the Sennheiser HD600 are 300 ohms. IEC 61938 states that all headphones should be driven from an output impedance of 120 ohms, irrespective of headphone impedance.
Earlier, and some other models may not conform to this.
My personal experience with the AKG K701 is that it sounds best when driven by an output impedance between 62 to 68 ohms, for example.

I am not surprised that the Sennheiser headphones sounded very poor when driven by this amplifier. You could try inserting series 120 ohm resistors in line, and see if the Sennheiser headphones improve. I suspect that they will markedly improve.Another example of headphones that sound better when driven fom a 120 ohm source impedance are the Audio Technica
ATH W1000

SandyK

Last edited by sandyK; 18th November 2009 at 09:42 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 18th November 2009, 10:52 AM   #4
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Yes I am totally aware of all of that.
Hence the reason for specifying in detail what was used to assess the performance.

Can you explain why headphones sound good when driven from a high output impedance, while speakers sound good when driven from a low output impedance?
Thanks

Last edited by Melon Head; 18th November 2009 at 11:01 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2009, 05:29 AM   #5
FritzS is offline FritzS  Austria
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Send a message via MSN to FritzS
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandyK View Post
thanh1973
You can not judge the performance of various headphones based on how they sound with one headphone amplifier.The amplifier you used has a quoted output impedance of only a couple of ohms. The headphones you are trying to compare have very different input impedances, and different driving impedance requirements .The Denon AH-D5000 are 25 ohms input impedance, the AKG K701 are 62 ohms, and the Sennheiser HD600 are 300 ohms. IEC 61938 states that all headphones should be driven from an output impedance of 120 ohms, irrespective of headphone impedance.
Earlier, and some other models may not conform to this.
My personal experience with the AKG K701 is that it sounds best when driven by an output impedance between 62 to 68 ohms, for example.
AKG (I have some contacts to AKG service, I live near Vienna) recommend low impedance output for the K701/702

My experience with Denon AH-D7000 - he loves low impedance output HA - the bass are tighter
__________________
Fritz AKG Q701, K701, K550, K271 MKII, Denon AH-D7000; GSP green SOLO, WNA MK II; Marantz SA7001 KI, Philips CD650; Revox B790, Goldring G1042; GSP green Reflex; sold Sennheiser HD600; as guest AKG K1000
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2009, 04:49 PM   #6
mlloyd1 is offline mlloyd1  United States
diyAudio Member
 
mlloyd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: illinois
i think one point to consider is that some (many?) headphone manufacturers design their product to be driven by the "standard" 120 ohm impedance. If you use other than 120 ohms to drive the headphones, you may not get the manufacturer's "designed" performance.

i recently (well, more like a year ago) changed to 50 ohm sennheiser headphones from older 300 ohm beyer dynamic headphones. changing the impedance driving the headphones seemed to impact the sound to me more so on the lower impedance headphones. i find that my personal preference is lower than 120 ohms (i have settled on 50 ohms resistive, no series inductor-resistor and no output r-c zobel) for the low impedance headphones.

mlloyd1

Quote:
Originally Posted by thanh1973 View Post
Yes I am totally aware of all of that.
Hence the reason for specifying in detail what was used to assess the performance.

Can you explain why headphones sound good when driven from a high output impedance, while speakers sound good when driven from a low output impedance?
Thanks
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2009, 08:35 PM   #7
sandyK is offline sandyK  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sydney
Default HD600 vs AKG701 vs Denon AH-D5000

mlloyd1
My findings are similar to yours , even down to the removal of the Zobel network etc.
My statement about the use of series resistors of 62-68 ohms with the AKG K701 was based on the reports of many K701 owners from another forum, who constructed a modified version of the Silicon Chip magazine Headphone Amplifier.(>112 constructed)
Initial recommendation was to vary the series resistor value from 47 ohms to 68 ohms to achieve the best results.
The majority of the K701 owners settled on 68 ohms, as the K701 can sound quite edgy (exaggerated treble) with lower values.
With the majority of headphones, a small reduction in the value of the series resistor increases apparent treble response, and conversely,
a small increase in the value of the series resistor improves low end balance. This has also been previously reported in other forums.
SandyK
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2009, 09:43 PM   #8
mlloyd1 is offline mlloyd1  United States
diyAudio Member
 
mlloyd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: illinois
sandyk:

interesting. my hd595 sennheisers were a gift from my wife to replace my old, worn dt990 beyer dynamic. some don't like the hd595; they sound quite nice to me. however, had i purchased my own replacement headphones, i would have purchased the akg k701 over anything else i've heard.

mlloyd1
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th December 2009, 09:57 PM   #9
00940 is offline 00940  Belgium
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Paris
I'd have to search through head-fi for the exact reference but I'm certain that Sennheiser representatives have stated that their headphones are designed for near 0 ohms outputs (and they demo them with such amps). Same for Akg and Grado.

Only Beyerdynamic sticks to the old 120ohms standard.

This of course shouldn't prevent anyone to tailor the sound to their liking.
__________________
Ben.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A.O.S - Any experience? Keltern Multi-Way 16 27th April 2012 12:15 AM
FS:Senn V2 kabel for HD600 or HD650 Ryssen Swap Meet 1 11th February 2009 05:32 AM
driving HD600 tenderland Tubes / Valves 1 20th August 2008 01:17 AM
can a musical fidelity pre drive my hd600 cans ? fatgaz Solid State 3 17th August 2007 04:28 PM
AKG K701 vs Sen.HD600 opinions thalis Everything Else 0 17th January 2006 07:15 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:09 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2