Spoeaker protection, project #33

[jmateus]

Hi folks

I need some help on project #33, Rod Elliot, louspeaker protection.

I built the circuit and it seems to be working fine, except for one "small" detail, when
I first turn on the amplifier the relays engage right away, there is no delay whatsoever, even though Rod states that there is a delay of at least 4 seconds.

I read and reread the article and I can't find any help from this reading. There is however the mentioning of increasing C1 to increase the delay time but that didn't work for me.

There must be some problem with the circuit. I believe the combination C1/R1
affects the bias of Q1 and probably the delay time, but I really can't pinpoint
the reason of this discrepancy.
I tried to e/mail Rod but there is no provision for that in his Web site.

Is there anyone that built the circuit and could help me out?
I'd appreciate any suggestions.

 

[BobEllis]

Check that the relay controller section (Figure 2) does not turn on with the "Off" terminal shorted to ground. If it does the problem is in that part of the circuit.

Otherwise look to the mute circuit, figure 3, which is what gives you the turn on delay. If R3 is too low that would make the circuit turn on too fast. Is C1 the proper value?

 

[jmateus]

Protection #33

Thanks Bob Ellis for your reply.
Yes, C1 is 1Uf, howeveer it is a polyester cap, does it a make a difference not being
an electrolytic? Shoul I increase the value, say, to 10uF?
Taking the OFF to ground doesn't do much except a spark that bothered me.
I thought Fig 2, relay activation circuit, was what determines the delay function, C1
and R1 being the constant time factor for the relay to operate.
I must be wrong thoug.

 

[BobEllis]

Oops - had it backwards - taking the off terminal high ought to deactivate the relays.

Looking at it again, C1/R1 in fig 2 ought to make a delay. Perhaps R1 or C1 is too small?

 

[jmateus]

That's what I thought, C1/R1 in fig 2 make the time delay and that's what isn't working. I already increased C1 to 100uF with no avail.
Perhaps I would play with R1, wiil see. In any event I have a feeling something is wrong with this circuit. I'll fiddle with it, thanks for your interest, Bob.

 

[BobEllis]

you have a jumper or some R7 installed, right?

 

[jmateus]

Hi Bob

Yes, R7 is installed, no appretiable difference in the overall circuit.
In fact I tested the circuit for DC ands lack of AC and it works with no problem.
Except for that detail (no delay at turn ON) the circuit works flawlessly.

It's a cruel world this one, ah,ah.

 

[MJL21193]

Thanks Bob Ellis for your reply.
Yes, C1 is 1Uf, howeveer it is a polyester cap, does it a make a difference not being
an electrolytic? Shoul I increase the value, say, to 10uF?
.

From the ESP page, C1 is shown to be 47uF not 1uF.

 

[jmateus]

Speaker protection #33

Yes, C1 is marked 47uF on fig. 2 - Relay activation circuit but the value of C1 on Fig 3 - Loss of AC detector is 1 uF, shown as an electrolytic. I used a polyester one.
But wich one are you guys refering to?

Thanks for the answers anyway

 

[MJL21193]

The C1 in fig.2 is part of the RC delay - that is the issue, right, not enough delay?
Have you followed Rod's directions with regard to current draw and impedance of the relays used? What is your supply rail voltage?

 

[BobEllis]

Jumper C1 in figure 2. The relays should never turn on. if they do, check Q1 - you should have ~0V emitter to collector.

 

[jmateus]

Protection #33

Yes, I've followed Rod's recommendations about the relays, I don't think the problem resides here.
The circuit has never functionned since the very beginning, the issue being that
was no delay whatsoever after the initial turn on. I thought the problem would
\be in fig 2 - Relay activation circuit, either C1 was not the proper size and that was
increased to 100uF. No luck.
\Then I assumed the circuit had something wrong and checked everything up to the
point that I was already fed up with it.
That's when I made a big mistake, took the OFF connection to ground, Puff, a spark
came up and after a few checks I found Q4 and D7 blown.
Replacing those didn't do too much for me, now the circcuit doesn't work, period.
To be frank folks I'm almost at the point to ditch the whole thing. Patience that's
what I don't have anymore.
By the way, the rail voltages are around 42 V, plus and minus.
Thank you for your interest, anyway.

 

[RSK]

DC protect from Magazine

Hi Jmateus,
Attached, I have been using for sometime with good results.
It's from a online magazine that I have incorporate the output inductors.
Works very well. Mail me for more info if you want to build it.

Raj