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Old 21st November 2009, 09:27 PM   #71
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True evil. Some of my favorite circuits are insultramentary SE push pull.
See what his mind does after being twisted to embrace the Anti-triode.
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Old 21st November 2009, 11:44 PM   #72
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pardon moi ;
this thread will me much more , or even completely trouble-free - without Mighty JC and camarilla .

I think , modest as usual , that Roadbagger deserve that .

Roger & over .
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Old 22nd November 2009, 12:04 AM   #73
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See what I mean, K ? ;-)
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Old 22nd November 2009, 12:12 AM   #74
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Zenmod,

I've previously been on the phone with mr Bagger at his request, and was given
verbal permission and even encouragement to jack this thread. If thats what you
are suggesting I am carrying it too far??? I don't know references to JC or cam?

RB seemed to find my train of thought derailing in a positive way. Go figure...
So, I'm throwing him as many curveballs as possible. This tangent leads into
SRPP drive circuitry, and will shortly be revealed the relevance. Even though
deliberately revealing details slightly out of sequencer to make his head spin
new ideas (fill in the blanks) that might be even better...

If you want to split my tangent feedback off into a different (non-stickified)
thread, feel free to do so. But I am giving Roadbagger exactly the shakeup
he personally requested and finds useful. It was not done out of disrespect.
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Old 22nd November 2009, 01:28 AM   #75
Zen Mod is offline Zen Mod  Serbia
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@kenpeter

naah ..... just disregard what I wrote .....

it was just my articulated fear that this jewel and nice flowing thread can mutate in something as BT thread...... parade of lost egos ;

take it as grumpy ZM's rambling .
it wasn't directed to you , in any case .

this time really Roger & over .
scusate from my side .
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Old 22nd November 2009, 04:08 AM   #76
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Default Ref: the venerable JC

Alright folks, put it all aside, the real reason for being here is to promote concepts that may or may not have merit, but at least have thought, sometimes of considerable mental bother to distractive conclusion. Though I may not subscribe to the train of thought that recommends prolific complimentary symmetric structures, I have used them liberally throughout many industrial circuit designs. Now that that phase of life is over, a return to the circuits of my origin often take a single polarity of voltage disregarding bias. The WSF is a derivative of the more palatable KRL/Peterson/Sinclair/Hall montage' and in part is represented here in its original form front end. Sorry about the vacuum thermionic parts but ya gotta start somewhere. For those who might dare to build it, I would be interested in your view of this theme. JC has been one of my mentors for some time, no capping here, OK? Other than communion with the venerable J.Curl I've mostly been talking to the mirror for this type of discussion and do appreciate real feedback.
As usual.....................K-wood
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Last edited by Roadbagger; 22nd November 2009 at 04:33 AM.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 01:35 AM   #77
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Default And the other bad thought continues

Just trying to make a wierd thought ...........wierder
It just seems like a good idea to make a power amp out of $3.30 worth of transistors

"Tarring reality and feathering it with symbols" J. M. Ziman

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Last edited by Roadbagger; 23rd November 2009 at 01:39 AM.
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Old 23rd November 2009, 02:41 PM   #78
jez is offline jez  United Kingdom
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Although I have long ago downloaded my free copy of "The Radiotron designers handbook" I can't seem to find the other two books which Roadbagger mentions either on P.Milletts site or any where else on the internet for that matter.... which is a pity. I well remember making several visits to my local library to peruse "the audio cyclopedia" whilst still a teenager and would love to download a copy!
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Old 23rd November 2009, 02:56 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jez View Post
Although I have long ago downloaded my free copy of "The Radiotron designers handbook" I can't seem to find the other two books which Roadbagger mentions either on P.Milletts site or any where else on the internet for that matter.... which is a pity. I well remember making several visits to my local library to peruse "the audio cyclopedia" whilst still a teenager and would love to download a copy!
The Audio cyclopedia and Shea's amplifier handbook were mentioned only because of thier usefullness should they become available. If anyone knows how to turn one into a PDF without chopping up the book, I'd like to have my copies used for such a task.

K-wood
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Old 23rd November 2009, 03:55 PM   #80
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Vacuum Triodes are a great place to start upon the road to Solid State Triode Emulators.
And Anti-Triode Emulators... Such being merely the insultramentary anti-compliment of
of a single ended voltage amplifier (preferably one that behaves as a Triode.) Preserving
single endedness in push-pull, rather than complimenting it away...

For sake of ZenMod following along, Nelson's Aleph current source in 100% active helper
mode does EXACTLY the same thing. More on this later...

Now, you get some of this in SRPP totems. Tapping the plate end of the resistor we see
a single triode set the voltage, and the other (need not be a triode) maintain a constant
current into the plate. But this gives only the output (or drive) power of one SE Triode.

Or Tap the top end of the resistor, you get more power, and the low cathode resistance
into the circuit being driven. But as with all cathode followers, this is an asymetrically low
resistance, does not slew the same speed both ways... Try to drive too low impedance,
even before attenuation, you begin to see severe asymmetry.

I am advocating a node in the middle of the SRPP resistor as the ideal place to tap.
If voltage is held constant across this resistor by the upper device, then the sum of
voltage drops must add to this constant. What this means, is that currents into the
load are then forced equal and opposite (plus the quiescent). 2x power, but behaves
as-if 2x bottom device in parallel, rather than push pull. The top device need not be
a Triode, it can be any circuit that can hold said voltage drop across the resistor.

In fact, its a better match (for the real triode) if the top device isn't also a Triode.
the Cathode impedance of the top device becomes part of the resistor in the middle,
and pushes the center point of the balance toward the top end. Possibly so far up,
this virtual node might be inside the cathode resistance where we can't get at it...

And to justify the relevance, we see plenty of SRPP's drive stages in RB's designs.
And he has on more than one occasion stated a prefernece for differential push pull
circuits abusing devices that deliberately do not match. And thats exactly to where
this distraction is going...

Last edited by kenpeter; 23rd November 2009 at 04:00 PM.
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