There are certainly many ways to optimize the shipment, and what you propose is very relevant indeed.. but then we are going from a simple group buy to a product redesign... this was not my intention in the first place.
After discussing with Locky_z though...
Heatsink is 400g, which will adds to the cost of the kit and shipment
Aluminium Casing is 1.3kg .. could probably be shaved down to 700g if made smaller...
.. We could make it plastic, but then can't we all go to radio shack and purchase our own casing, in the flavour and color that we like, and drill a few holes ourselves ?
Current design is made to order. Locky_z does not have the tooling to make a "customized" plastic case. What could be offered is the "V2" style which is "home made" and which I suppose we could do by ourselves...
(this is DIYaudio isn;t it ?
)
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Yes - Lazybutt, you are right that removing the weight ( of mechanical components that can be locally added) only for DIY Audio group buy makes a lot of sense. This without making any revision to product is the easiest. However Locky_z can plan a revision ( as he had already revised the item in the last few months) for a mass audience will benefit him infact. He can sell more qty this way through his ebay like channel ( Alibaba site?) as his price is getting inflated for Aluminum Box/powersupply plus associated charges.
It is a very good suggestion from 1Audio
kannan
It is a very good suggestion from 1Audio
kannan
Group Buy open here
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/206794-gb-diy-curve-tracer-pc.html#post2907893
Please let's stop polluting this thread with GB related posts
Thanks!
Fred
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/206794-gb-diy-curve-tracer-pc.html#post2907893
Please let's stop polluting this thread with GB related posts
Thanks!
Fred
When you measure the curve of a DTU, do not clear the screen, and then measuring the second , so you can see two curves, and then the third ....
You can compare their error on the screen, find the curve matching.
Or you can choice ‘Calculate’ , such as you select Ic=5mA, It will calculate all the DTU hfe(or Vgs) at collector current equ 5mA,and sort them in a list.
Match transistor you can choice Ic->Hfe curve,
Match fets,you can choice Vgs-Id curve.
The measure data(curve) can save ,so you can load them later,and compare with the new DTU,
How much transistors can measure at same time? I have not tried.
But I tried at the same time measuring more than 120 curves, the screen becomes crowded and slow.
You can compare their error on the screen, find the curve matching.
Or you can choice ‘Calculate’ , such as you select Ic=5mA, It will calculate all the DTU hfe(or Vgs) at collector current equ 5mA,and sort them in a list.
Match transistor you can choice Ic->Hfe curve,
Match fets,you can choice Vgs-Id curve.
The measure data(curve) can save ,so you can load them later,and compare with the new DTU,
How much transistors can measure at same time? I have not tried.
But I tried at the same time measuring more than 120 curves, the screen becomes crowded and slow.
Hi,
I received the first samples from Locky_z this weekend, and as an outsider / newbie can complement what Locky_z just said
I guess the answer about how many can be measured simultaneously is: ONE only
You can also save the data and import in Excel. That is very easy.
After playing with it for a few hours only, I can say overall the Curve Tracer is very easy to use and intuitive. Of course there are some translations difficulties, and possibly a few things to improve, but I must say the software is very easy to use and convenient.
Also a lot of things to configure, but it's very automatic and works without getting your hands dirty.
I had never used a curve tracer either, and were able to measure most basic curves of an IRF9610 MOSFET after 20 minutes.
You can find the User manual in the GC thread and have a feel of how difficult it will be to measure a device.
About easiness of matching, it's exactly as Locky_z said. You measure one by one, and compare the curves visually. (you can also do more complex / algorithm treatment by exporting the data)
Haven't used the "calculate" function yet
The Graph interface is very robust. (just misses the axis labels and legend..)
One funny function is the ability to auto-detect a device... you put any 2 or 3 legged device in the X, Y, Z socket, and it will tell you what it is (diode, NPN, MOSFET, etc..) , and what are the pins !
Fred
I received the first samples from Locky_z this weekend, and as an outsider / newbie can complement what Locky_z just said
I guess the answer about how many can be measured simultaneously is: ONE only
You can also save the data and import in Excel. That is very easy.
After playing with it for a few hours only, I can say overall the Curve Tracer is very easy to use and intuitive. Of course there are some translations difficulties, and possibly a few things to improve, but I must say the software is very easy to use and convenient.
Also a lot of things to configure, but it's very automatic and works without getting your hands dirty.
I had never used a curve tracer either, and were able to measure most basic curves of an IRF9610 MOSFET after 20 minutes.
You can find the User manual in the GC thread and have a feel of how difficult it will be to measure a device.
About easiness of matching, it's exactly as Locky_z said. You measure one by one, and compare the curves visually. (you can also do more complex / algorithm treatment by exporting the data)
Haven't used the "calculate" function yet
The Graph interface is very robust. (just misses the axis labels and legend..
)One funny function is the ability to auto-detect a device... you put any 2 or 3 legged device in the X, Y, Z socket, and it will tell you what it is (diode, NPN, MOSFET, etc..) , and what are the pins !
Fred
Now that an increasing number of us will receive and start using this device, I suggest that we start collecting comments for improvements in an organised way (to support locky_z and ourselves), instead of potential 1000 posts incoherently following up each other.
Possible split of dedicated subjects:
- Circuitry (flaws, errors, recommended improvements, etc.)
- uP programming (not sure if required, or if locky_z wants to)
- PC software (visual interface, options, translations, etc)
- User Manual development (good translations, contents, options, export, etc)
- Excel import templates for easy yet advanced curve plotting and computing
- anything else?
Perhaps it would be an idea that each subject has a forum member occupying himself about the various inputs from others, collecting all the input in an organised way, and/or developping that subject ?
Possible split of dedicated subjects:
- Circuitry (flaws, errors, recommended improvements, etc.)
- uP programming (not sure if required, or if locky_z wants to)
- PC software (visual interface, options, translations, etc)
- User Manual development (good translations, contents, options, export, etc)
- Excel import templates for easy yet advanced curve plotting and computing
- anything else?
Perhaps it would be an idea that each subject has a forum member occupying himself about the various inputs from others, collecting all the input in an organised way, and/or developping that subject ?
Fred,
I read somewhere in this thread that you have mentioned some of the components that Lock_Z used in the tracer are used one. I do not doubt that the units will be fully functional and work fine. However, every component has a certain life time. I do not think people would entertain the idea of replacing components after relatively short period of usage. Granted, even new components could fail but the probability is much lower. IMHO, let's ask Lock_Z what would be the increase in cost if new components are used. If the cost difference is not high (e.g. 20%-30% more), I personally think using new components is the better way to go. To me, that would be a small cost to hedge against the risk associated with the reliability of the unit that we are going to get. I do not mind prepay for the unit so that Lock_Z can have the capital to purchase parts required.
The above is just my personal opinion. No flaming please
Regards,
I read somewhere in this thread that you have mentioned some of the components that Lock_Z used in the tracer are used one. I do not doubt that the units will be fully functional and work fine. However, every component has a certain life time. I do not think people would entertain the idea of replacing components after relatively short period of usage. Granted, even new components could fail but the probability is much lower. IMHO, let's ask Lock_Z what would be the increase in cost if new components are used. If the cost difference is not high (e.g. 20%-30% more), I personally think using new components is the better way to go. To me, that would be a small cost to hedge against the risk associated with the reliability of the unit that we are going to get. I do not mind prepay for the unit so that Lock_Z can have the capital to purchase parts required.
The above is just my personal opinion. No flaming please
Regards,
Hmmmm.. this is gonna be hard..... but I'll try...
... even though I already said that this GB was take it or leave it, and that I would not go through the hassle of modifying the product.
That is correct (that's in the GB thread): all Relays, Power transistors and some of the ICs. Some are on sockets and can be easily replaced. Some others would require a bit of desoldering, but nothing is impossible
That one is debatable... and I'm no expert.. so I don't want to enter this discussion (even though I'm ready to bet that none of the 40+ units will fail within the next 10 years if properly used.... I think it's more an issue with slow drifting of some of the characteristics in time)
Nor do I... ! and I think we are all convinced that new components would be a little bit better
"Better way", depends for who.... those who ever organized a Group Buy would understand what I mean.... 40+ people.. each I have to send a reminder 3 times in average to get the full contact details (and that's just Name, Address, Phone number, Payment option)...... then I have to organize the purchase and shipping
What you propose makes perfect sense, but that is a totally different topic... not a Group Buy anymore, but a new project that I have to discuss with Locky_Z, agree on new pricing, etc , etc...
Believe me .. I've already plaided this cause with Locky_Z, but doing all this in chinese is no easy task for a french man....
I have decided to organise the GB with the existing product anyway, for which Locky_s has parts in stock, etc etc... and is already in the process of building them !
And at current price and time already spent on this GB, I dare say that I wouldn't be very pleased to have to ask 40 people what option they would prefer again....
'nuff said.... (hope you won't feel I flamed you
.. at least if was not the intent...)I might give it a thought and try to discuss again with Locky_Z (who I know reads this thread and might also give it a thought), but I'm a bit reluctant to be honest...
Cheers
Fred
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Hmmmm.. this is gonna be hard..... but I'll try...
... even though I already said that this GB was take it or leave it, and that I would not go through the hassle of modifying the product.
That is correct (that's in the GB thread): all Relays, Power transistors and some of the ICs. Some are on sockets and can be easily replaced. Some others would require a bit of desoldering, but nothing is impossible
That one is debatable... and I'm no expert.. so I don't want to enter this discussion (even though I'm ready to bet that none of the 40+ units will fail within the next 10 years if properly used.... I think it's more an issue with slow drifting of some of the characteristics in time)
Nor do I... ! and I think we are all convinced that new components would be a little bit better
"Better way", depends for who.... those who ever organized a Group Buy would understand what I mean.... 40+ people.. each I have to send a reminder 3 times in average to get the full contact details (and that's just Name, Address, Phone number, Payment option)...... then I have to organize the purchase and shipping
What you propose makes perfect sense, but that is a totally different topic... not a Group Buy anymore, but a new project that I have to discuss with Locky_Z, agree on new pricing, etc , etc...
Believe me .. I've already plaided this cause with Locky_Z, but doing all this in chinese is no easy task for a french man....
I have decided to organise the GB with the existing product anyway, for which Locky_s has parts in stock, etc etc... and is already in the process of building them !
And at current price and time already spent on this GB, I dare say that I wouldn't be very pleased to have to ask 40 people what option they would prefer again....
'nuff said.... (hope you won't feel I flamed you
I might give it a thought and try to discuss again with Locky_Z (who I know reads this thread and might also give it a thought), but I'm a bit reluctant to be honest...
Cheers
Fred
Hi, Fred,
First of all, I would like to express my gratitude (I am sure the other 40+ people too would) to you in setting up this GB. I fully understand that a lot of work (and patience) is required and hopefully, there will not be too many hicups.
I really appreciate your direct and honest responses to my comments. They are valid. No flaming at all. The main reason that triggered my comments is that Lock_Z is going to put in a lot of "elbow grease" and time to fabricate all the boards (my understanding is that he is a "one-man factory") - if we have to pay him the labour cost, it is going to be expensive (not to mention the design effort that he put in). So, I am glad that he is not asking us to compensate him for that (at least not all of it). Then, why don't we get the most out of this GB and pay a little more and use all new components.
Thank you again for organising this GB.
Regards,
Lo_tse
Lock_Z,
Thank you for joining the discussion. Well, if some of the key components are on longer available, my suggestion becomes a moot point. Let's move on and get the GB going "as-is" then.
BTW, thank you for offering this GB.
Regards,
Lo_tse
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