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Old 25th August 2009, 09:38 AM   #11
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Originally Posted by BrianL View Post
syn08: yes likely; in fact, true. Compare gain/phase curves (fig 11 OPA211; fig 5 OPA1611); they're not the same.
For all practical purposes, they are the same. Same unity gain frequency (30MHz) and the same phase rolloff. Don't tell me about the higher OL bandwidth, this opamp is single pole compensated (see the schematic) and hence has a GBW of 30MHz. OPA1611's are likely low class OL bandwidth OPA211's, hence the slightly higher OL bandwidth.

About distortion curves, I don't see any real optimisation. At best, a more careful triage in testing. All values deltas are well under anything that a process or design can control.
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Old 25th August 2009, 04:03 PM   #12
BrianL is offline BrianL  United States
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You know, it's so very hard to combat cynicism with facts...

What you're essentially telling me is the apps guy who talked to me is lying. Well, I've consulted with him on many topics over a number of years and have never found this to be the case. His advice has always been spot-on (as my Scottish co-worker would say).

There are distinct differences in the open loop gain/phase out at high frequencies. That's obvious from the plots. There's also a difference in the HF portion of the distortion plots. If you want to attribute this to lot-to-lot difference, then time will tell what the "mean' is. If you want to attribute the differences to cherry-picking data from a bunch of different devices, then I suppose you're free to that opinion.

I'm done here. The parts are available; the data out there for people to read. I intent to try these myself in a current project or two and hope to find myself another small step closer to audio nirvana. (once I get some SOIC-to-PDIP adapters...)
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Old 25th August 2009, 05:15 PM   #13
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Originally Posted by BrianL View Post
You know, it's so very hard to combat cynicism with facts...

What you're essentially telling me is the apps guy who talked to me is lying.
He's not lying to you. He only tells you what he knows, and that is essentially what he was told about this part, and that is essentially what the company wants you to hear. Very few application engineers have much of an idea about silicon processing, testing, sorting, packaging, burn in, etc... Their knowledge stops at the gates of the SOT-8 package, which doesn't make him less knowledgeable when it comes to advising customers.

I have worked for quite some years in a semiconductor plant and still have a pretty good insight on how many parts are actually "manufactured". The number of original designs is usually much smaller than the number of pages in the catalog. The rest is sorting, re-packaging, etc... TI seem to excel in such practices (which are nowhere to be ashamed of)... on top of my head, another glaring example are OPA1632 and THS4131.

Good luck, OPA1611 is definitely a very good opamp.

Correction: In my post above, read "OPA1611's are likely low class OL gain OPA211's, hence the slightly higher OL bandwidth"

Last edited by syn08; 25th August 2009 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Correction
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Old 26th August 2009, 05:18 AM   #14
BrianL is offline BrianL  United States
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My intention in starting this thread was to find out if any experimentation and discussion was already ongoing with a promising new audio part that is of interest to me. The hope was to get reactions from other users to assist/guide my own work. It was not to get into an argument with syn08 (Ovidiu ?) on why he knows more/less than I, the apps. engineer or whomever.

I hope if anyone has given the parts a try and would like to report on their results, that they would feel welcome to speak up or PM me. I notice that folks on HeadFi are starting comparisons.
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Last edited by BrianL; 26th August 2009 at 05:20 AM. Reason: fingers don't do what brain tells them to do
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Old 26th August 2009, 06:26 AM   #15
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You can find comments on OPA211 at head-fi.org
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Old 26th August 2009, 02:13 PM   #16
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At the cost of masks and wafers, it would be highly unlikely that the economics of two separate products would be justified for such trivial differences. OTOH I find it difficult to believe an op-amp would get released in the first place that had any yield loss to OLG unless it was known in advance.
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Old 26th August 2009, 02:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianL View Post
My intention in starting this thread was to find out if any experimentation and discussion was already ongoing with a promising new audio part that is of interest to me. The hope was to get reactions from other users to assist/guide my own work. It was not to get into an argument with syn08 (Ovidiu ?) on why he knows more/less than I, the apps. engineer or whomever.[snip]
Fair enough Brian, but OTOH if someone knowledgable makes it clear that the 'new' opamp is really an existing one in a new coat, that could save you a lot of useless work and you could go after something really new. I would call that very usefull advice.

jd
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Old 26th August 2009, 02:37 PM   #18
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On review of the DS's several graphs are cut and paste, most importantly the .1 to 10Hz noise plots are the same graphic. I leave the computation of the probability of that to the readers imagination.
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Old 26th August 2009, 02:54 PM   #19
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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OTOH I find it difficult to believe an op-amp would get released in the first place that had any yield loss to OLG unless it was known in advance.
I think it was known in advance. OPA211, OPA2211 and OPA827 were delayed for quite some time, reason being the maturity of the new BiCom-3 SiGe process.
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Old 26th August 2009, 04:56 PM   #20
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I got my samples this moment, by FedEx. Now, need to order PCBs in order to tell something... Packages are extremely useless for prototyping.
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