bipolar (BJT) transistor families for audio power output stages

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-05-09 9:22 am

From which of these listed types is expected, that they are also over a longer period of time available (at least for several years) and not obsolete respectively only available as cloned version ??

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-10-09 11:25 am

tiefbassuebertr said:
From which of these listed types (about post #1) is expected, that they are also over a longer period of time available (at least for several years) and not obsolete respectively only available as cloned version ??

No comments?

blmn · 2011-10-09 1:06 pm

Well,

English is not my native language, but, considering that I understood the question, I suppose the family 1302/3281 and their improved new units must be in production for a long time.

Regards

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-11-27 6:01 pm

I am looking for new launched BjT power devices for audio output buffer and general purpose applications.
What's currently new?

homemodder · 2011-11-28 2:15 pm

Sanken 2SA2223/2SC6145, besides excellent parameters, look at the excellent SOA obtained from TO 3P package.

IMHO, Sanken is still the best BJT power transistor manufacturer and if you buy from certain vendors you could get prices even or better than ONSEMI.

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-11-28 2:57 pm

homemodder said:
Sanken 2SA2223/2SC6145, besides excellent parameters, look at the excellent SOA obtained from TO 3P package.

IMHO, Sanken is still the best BJT power transistor manufacturer and if you buy from certain vendors you could get prices even or better than ONSEMI.

The main disadvantage for me by Sanken's (and Toshiba's) power BjT devices is the fact, that there are a lot of counterfeits on the marked, often very difficult to distinguish from the genuine/original versions - go to
Counterfeit Transistors
I have heard, that this risk by brands like Fairchild, ROHM and ST is significantly lower.

tiefbassuebertr · 2011-11-28 4:09 pm

dawsoo · 2011-12-11 6:56 pm

tiefbassuebertr said:
jinma: Thank you for this advice

No; - go to
??????????? Audio????: TTA1943, TTC5200????????? ?????????
to see the differences
datasheets in english are also available there.
http://www.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/docs/datasheet/en/Transistor/TTC5200_en_datasheet_090713.pdf
http://www.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/docs/datasheet/en/Transistor/TTA1943_en_datasheet_090713.pdf

TTA1943/TTC5200 vs 2SC1943/2SC5200

Compare Cob!!! 220/140pF vs 360/220pF ... Soa beta , and other is same

tiefbassuebertr · 2012-12-28 10:44 am

tiefbassuebertr said:
Are there really no books, application notes and literature about various emitter structures in Audio power bipolare junction transistors?

Are there any news?

tommy1000 · 2012-12-28 3:01 pm

tiefbassuebertr said:
Are there any news?

Power transistors have their emitters and bases interleaved as narrow fingers. This is necessary to prevent “current crowding” and consequent “second break down”. In addition multiple emitter structure also reduces parasitic ohmic resistance in the base current path.

From what I understand each semiconductor manufacturer have there own
proprietary design to solve this.

tiefbassuebertr · 2013-01-04 4:24 pm

sine a long time Naim Audio order BjT audio power devices from Semelab:
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/naim/poweramp_pix/nap250ampboard.jpg
From there in the meantime are listed various types in different outlines - not mentioned about post #1:
Complementary Bipolar Power Transistors for High Power Audio
there are also this interesting application note:
http://products.semelab-tt.com/pdf/ApplicationNoteBipolars.pdf
maybe of interest for repair service on vintage power amp stages from Japan and U.S.

Telstar · 2013-01-04 4:27 pm

I understand why they can use them, naim output stage is a quasi-complementary and the N parts looks quite ok, while the "complements" are much worse (almost HALF Ft!)

tiefbassuebertr · 2013-01-04 9:43 pm

yeah, that's always the case. I know no true complementary pair, that corresponding to it's name - i. e. no diagram has exact a mirror image.
This is the reason, why not only Naim Audio prefer quasi complentary output power buffer circuits (have a look to Quad 303 and much other).

tiefbassuebertr · 2013-05-23 12:10 pm

I have heard, the2SA1141/2SC2681 from Nippon Electric Company was the absolutely best available power BjT's for Audio power amps - go to post #1 for short form data and
‚m‚d‚b�»�@‚Q‚r‚`‚P‚P‚S‚P�A‚Q‚r‚b‚Q‚U‚W‚PƒRƒ“ƒvƒŠƒ�ƒ“ƒ^ƒŠƒgƒ‰ƒ“ƒWƒXƒ^�@ƒyƒA

Which currently/ongoing produced and available BjTs from this days are closest to those NEC devices with exceptionally parameters?
and a second question:
What are today's best delivery sources (order addresses) and manufacturers for BjT power devices for audio?

I know Fairchild, Motorola (Toshiba), MOSPEC and Semelab (Magnatec), but I am not able, which of them are real manufacturers instead OEM companies. Additional there are to find a lot of counterfeits, which are very difficult to distinguish from genuine devices - go to
http://sound.westhost.com/fake/counterfeit-p1.htm
so as various threads here on diyaudio.

Thank you for advices and sharing experiences

Bob Cordell · 2013-05-23 4:28 pm

tiefbassuebertr said:
I have heard, the2SA1141/2SC2681 from Nippon Electric Company was the absolutely best available power BjT's for Audio power amps - go to post #1 for short form data and
‚m‚d‚b�»�@‚Q‚r‚`‚P‚P‚S‚P�A‚Q‚r‚b‚Q‚U‚W‚PƒRƒ“ƒvƒŠƒ�ƒ“ƒ^ƒŠƒgƒ‰ƒ“ƒWƒXƒ^�@ƒyƒA

Which currently/ongoing produced and available BjTs from this days are closest to those NEC devices with exceptionally parameters?
and a second question:
What are today's best delivery sources (order addresses) and manufacturers for BjT power devices for audio?

I know Fairchild, Motorola (Toshiba), MOSPEC and Semelab (Magnatec), but I am not able, which of them are real manufacturers instead OEM companies. Additional there are to find a lot of counterfeits, which are very difficult to distinguish from genuine devices - go to
Counterfeit Transistors
so as various threads here on diyaudio.

Thank you for advices and sharing experiences

I'm guessing the OnSemi ThermalTraks and their non-ThermalTrak siblings, at leat as far as what is reasonably available these days. Their price is also quite reasonable.

If you find better than these that are reasonably available, please let me know so that I can cite them in the second edition of my book.

Cheers,
Bob

Walkalone · 2013-05-24 3:40 am

The Semalab's audio power BJT looks new. I have not heard about it.

tiefbassuebertr · 2013-05-24 10:22 am

Bob Cordell said:
I'm guessing the OnSemi ThermalTraks and their non-ThermalTrak siblings, at leat as far as what is reasonably available these days. Their price is also quite reasonable.

If you find better than these that are reasonably available, please let me know so that I can cite them in the second edition of my book.

Cheers,
Bob

thank you for this advice. From the associated Toshiba versions there are many fakes on the marked.
Fake Toshiba Transistors 2SA1302/2SC3281 - YouTube

manso · 2013-05-24 10:59 am

tiefbassuebertr said:
I have heard, the2SA1141/2SC2681 from Nippon Electric Company was the absolutely best available power BjT's for Audio power amps - go to post #1 for short form data and
‚m‚d‚b�»�@‚Q‚r‚`‚P‚P‚S‚P�A‚Q‚r‚b‚Q‚U‚W‚PƒRƒ“ƒvƒŠƒ�ƒ“ƒ^ƒŠƒgƒ‰ƒ“ƒWƒXƒ^�@ƒyƒA

Which currently/ongoing produced and available BjTs from this days are closest to those NEC devices with exceptionally parameters?
and a second question:
What are today's best delivery sources (order addresses) and manufacturers for BjT power devices for audio?

I know Fairchild, Motorola (Toshiba), MOSPEC and Semelab (Magnatec), but I am not able, which of them are real manufacturers instead OEM companies. Additional there are to find a lot of counterfeits, which are very difficult to distinguish from genuine devices - go to
Counterfeit Transistors
so as various threads here on diyaudio.

Thank you for advices and sharing experiences

Whoever posted that is incorrect. It seems the reason for doing so because of the high FT of that part but it means very little if other parameters are worse. The low Vce means it will have lower early voltage leading to higher distortion and the parts Cob is also not class leading wich will mean highish distortion at high frequencies. Further the SOA is dissapointing compared to other offerings. The most linear transistors I have tested are from Sanken, the 2sa1186/2sc2837 which have similar SOA. Note the only parameter that is not better is Ft. For higher power there is not many around that can match the Sanken pair of 2sa2223A/2sc6145A. The SOA of these parts is exceptional (keeping in mind its high Ft) for the package and only Onsemi´s bigger packaged transistors can match it. Semelab´s transistors seem to be as good as these sankens and I think they are licenced versions. Semelab is a major distributor for Sanken in europe and are maybe in collaboration with Sanken.

tiefbassuebertr · 2013-05-24 12:57 pm

manso said:
Whoever posted that is incorrect. It seems the reason for doing so because of the high FT of that part but it means very little if other parameters are worse. The low Vce means it will have lower early voltage leading to higher distortion and the parts Cob is also not class leading wich will mean highish distortion at high frequencies. Further the SOA is dissapointing compared to other offerings. The most linear transistors I have tested are from Sanken, the 2sa1186/2sc2837 which have similar SOA. Note the only parameter that is not better is Ft. For higher power there is not many around that can match the Sanken pair of 2sa2223A/2sc6145A. The SOA of these parts is exceptional (keeping in mind its high Ft) for the package and only Onsemi´s bigger packaged transistors can match it. Semelab´s transistors seem to be as good as these sankens and I think they are licenced versions. Semelab is a major distributor for Sanken in europe and are maybe in collaboration with Sanken.

Thank you for this informations.
Concerning counterfeits resp. fakes this thread is the most interesting here on diyaudio:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/82638-my-transistors-original-copy-50.html#post3502916

FQR · 2013-09-08 2:22 am

Thank you, too, dear manso. Very interesting.

bipolar (BJT) transistor families for audio power output stages

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